Author Topic: A Discussion on leveling. (Read 1619 times)

iceyfire · « **on:** August 29, 2007, 06:31:10 pm »

Hi everyone, please try and keep this constructive and well free of any kind of flaming, as what i say is my opinion, and im open to what you all have to say.

Now that thats out of the way, something occured to me recently, with the new layonara set to be rearing its head next year?, and nwn pretty much being left for dead...

I had a thought, why is it many have dropped out, and then it occured to me, its time investment, many cannot bare to make new characters or even push their old ones because of time investment in leveling.

Dont get me wrong i have quite enjoyed the slow journey of raising through the levels, and the risk in dieing, but i couldnt do it again not now...
I really want to see all of these new areas, i really want to see what all of those really high level places have to offer yet it seems the bulk of the players are ethier in mid twenties or around 18 ish...

And well when this chapter is about to close, dont you think it might be a little more fun to open up the other interesting parts of the server to the mainstream by lessening the level time investment..

Aye some of you might say attend a quest or two to get this exp, but i say i rarely see any that are not halfway through a plot line, or are closed for some reason or another and the others are just in a different timezone entirely... And yes i do respect the Gm's have lives and all that im just saying its not really a viable option..

What im talking about is not streamlining powerleveling, but rather unrestricting it a bit, by lessening that large barrier, it would certainly make it much more interesting in my belief....

And it would encourage more people to play some new characters as the investment of time would be lower then what it is now..
Dont get me wrong i didnt come to layonara to powerlevel up to 40 and flaunt my power or build over others... no not at all, im suggesting more along the lines of pushing more up into the low 30's and making 20 something the commonish level...

Anyway i hope i made sense, let me know your thoughts on the matter, and perhaps suggestions to the problems i have talked about, i look forward to reading what you think.

LynnJuniper · « **Reply #1 on:** August 29, 2007, 06:39:47 pm »

I can agree with the points you're making, but I don't think the end is as near as you're assuming. And I think things like the DT system and probably the level requirements will be more laxed as we get closer to that end, actually.

The stuff will be there then, hopefully so will the chars who want to see it, so don't sweat it is all I have to say

Skywatcher · « **Reply #2 on:** August 29, 2007, 07:03:32 pm »

I think this topic was one of many that was discussed in the state of Layo and it's future thread. If I remember right the team did say that things might get laxed up towards the very end but I agree with Lynn above. I think Layo's end is farther than most people think especially if it doesn't end until the new product is available. Maybe I am just wishful thinking but that's my feeling anyway.

Polak76 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 29, 2007, 07:05:58 pm »

Just something on the side, I've had a high level char many moons ago and yes he got to adventure to some pretty nasty places. At the end of the day however, my faveourite levels are 1-12. I really think thats where the most fun is. Then when the team converted Layo to version 3, all those simple places became challenges again. I especially love how the red light caverns had tough goblins and the new krandor crypts and grey peaks. These places are more exciting with low level characters then the old eastern continent with high level ones.
In other words, speaking from experience, don't get hell bent on leveling your character to 20+. Good low level characters are more fun.

SteveJW · « **Reply #4 on:** August 29, 2007, 07:13:19 pm »

I hope you're right Lynn. Kyle is 400k+ away from 20 with 7 DT's. At the rate of level advancement...I more likely will perm before reaching the magic 21 and 5 more DT's. (He's averaged 1 DT per level since he lost number 1 at level 13 or 14)

That is a lot of time invested in him and I wouldn't want to start over this late in the game. I hope...if the staff doesn't want to turn the Soul Mother off again...maybe slow the rate of losing strands. (To say maybe a chance to lose one every 3 deaths).

Hope that doesn't PO the staff. It's just a suggestion.

I enjoyed my time here...and I will miss Kyle when the new game goes up and he retires.

Grid Blader · « **Reply #5 on:** August 29, 2007, 07:20:19 pm »

I do love the new charters. After I desided to kill....... Umm.... Well anyway. I have tryed new charters. Lower levels are nice to play but I love higher level charters more. More cool things to fight, more places to go, and just cooler stuff to fight with.

I belive that players are still here, but in my cace with work and working so much it has been hard to play. I get up and leave my house at 3:00 am make it to work and put in a 10 to 12 hour day and drive home 6 to 7 days a week (More on the 7 then the 6).. I am a bit tired. I also know a few others that once there lives turn right side up again they will be back.

Chongo · « **Reply #6 on:** August 29, 2007, 08:17:01 pm »

Well, in response to Polak first.. a lot has been done to change the dynamic of high levels. In fact I'd say one of the potentially most fun adventurers is for level 35's (and nobody's even found it yet har!).

But yeah, I like the 12ish range as well... so I'll go with you on that.

And in response to the thread idea.... I think we have plenty of time, and that folks should stop sweating the end. It'll come when it comes, and hopefully I'm still swinging my blades instead of sitting in an armchair retired and 'content' with 'success' when it does.

I disagree with making anything easier for those two reasons above.

Leanthar · « **Reply #7 on:** August 29, 2007, 08:36:43 pm »

*smiles at Chongo* Yeah, I am a little surprised nobody has found 35's yet. Should be good fun.

Folks, you still have a good while on NwN. I can not (and will not say how long) because things do change but it is a good while yet.

miltonyorkcastle · « **Reply #8 on:** August 29, 2007, 08:43:21 pm »

If it wasn't hard, it wouldn't be worth it.

...... sort of a motto... or is it a creedo?

LynnJuniper · « **Reply #9 on:** August 29, 2007, 08:49:10 pm »

We're afraid of Piles o Doom L! Seriously though, point me in a direction. I laugh in the face of danger (Then run screaming)

ShiffDrgnhrt · « **Reply #10 on:** August 29, 2007, 09:43:27 pm »

Quote from: miltonyorkcastle

If it wasn't hard, it wouldn't be worth it.

Thats true for a lot of things... Although what those things are is better left to another discussion.

Hehe... my favorite PC is still 4 lvls from being the magic 20, and even then I hope to try for WL. But heck, if I knew i could log on and in an hour or two be there? Wouldnt mean as much... The fun of anything is in the struggle to get there, cause once you have it. What then?

merlin34baseball · « **Reply #11 on:** August 29, 2007, 09:53:51 pm »

Um... speed up leveling?

Looks to me like that has already happened. I have been playing one char for almost two years and am level 19... and have watched multiple characters that have been created in the last six months pass her in levels...

Seems to me it has sped up.

darkstorme · « **Reply #12 on:** August 29, 2007, 10:01:52 pm »

*chuckles* Level 19? I'm closing on a year and a half, and my character's level 9.

I DO have three characters, mind.

ShiffDrgnhrt · « **Reply #13 on:** August 29, 2007, 10:02:32 pm »

I have four, and only 1 is close to level 17. so there =oP

LynnJuniper · « **Reply #14 on:** August 29, 2007, 10:04:18 pm »

Its really a matter of time. Last two summers I had lots so I quested my arse off, and got to 20 before a year was up because I had no job or school. sometimes thats just how the time cards are delt, but lets not bring that conversation here

merlin34baseball · « **Reply #15 on:** August 29, 2007, 10:11:19 pm »

You both kinda make my point...

year and a half, three characters and the top is 9... How many total levels do you have btwenn the three? probably 20? 25?

Same for you Shiff?

Then I look at the server and see characters my player helped when they were level one 6 months ago and their over level 21.

Don't take this the wrong way some people play alot more than others but, from what I see, I see an increase in leveling speed, but maybe thats just me.

And the 4 million XP at 20th *sighs*.... So I have like 5 million XP now at level 19... add 4 million for the twenty hump, and that means there are people who have gotten over 9 million XP in like 6 months.

Just seems strange, thats all. So obviously there is a way to rocket up in levels. Sometimes I wish I knew what it was and sometimes I don't.

Addition: This is in no way meant to antagonize anyone, just mearly to point out that people can and do level up quickly where they can see the whole world.

Chongo · « **Reply #16 on:** August 29, 2007, 10:28:55 pm »

Merlin, I think it's that the majority of people are focusing their time on one character since the big announcement.

Now, you couple that with the general timeline of Layonara overall, where a lot of people have naturally progressed to 21 before and after the lifting of that cap, then you also have actual groups in the higher levels and obviously adventures with experience are going to be more likely.

That's my take at least.

twidget658 · « **Reply #17 on:** August 29, 2007, 10:41:45 pm »

You get into a group of like minded people, then it is pretty easy. If you push and push, it is easy to get 100k + in a span of about 2 or 3 hours. Some people do this in moderation, others do it continuously (about the same areas all the time or they will bounce from one high xp area to another each time they log on as a group).

Think of it as a kite. The main player has a character that supports a party. The little bows on the tail fly with the kite going where ever the kite goes. If the kite is not playing, then the tail doesn't do anything until the kite comes back. Then it is the same grind. Every now and then, a new bow will be added or a bow will leave once they get bored.

It is all dependent on individual goals. If the goal is levels, power and drops then the grinding is not boring as xp and items racks up. If your goal is some xp and some RP, the kite is not the answer. Maybe one or two trips, but it gets old fast because it is the same people doing it with little to no RP. If your goal is to develope a character and get into the world, then it is a slow path.

Playing a low level character is a lot of fun, I have to agree with the others. Usually when I start a new character, I use another login. This allows me to RP with people I know, but they don't know me, which opens a lot of new interactions. It gives me a chance to break away from a certain mindset, too. It also keeps people from talking to me or wanting to help me just because they know me from my other characters.

Pseudonym · « **Reply #18 on:** August 29, 2007, 10:42:22 pm »

I'm a bit on Polak and Twidget's side here.

I love the idea of my characters getting up there in level (my highest being lvl 15 after 16 months - a veritable power leveller compared to Darkstorme!!) and then I start to consider all the options available for me to try out still.

Lots of classes, lots of races, lots of religions, different abilities, lots of weapons, lots of feats, lots of skills, lots of personalities to explore.

As i've said elsewhere, remember there is no destination, there is only the journey. Stephen King at the end of the Dark Tower series puts it in an analogy I like.

What was my point? *scratches head* Yeah, that's right, sometimes areas, challenges and most importantly, RP interactions you have already done with one character seem entirely new and different when you all of a sudden have an entirely different perspective and set of gifts with which to face them.

Exploring the psyche, learning to understand my new character, meeting other characters I know as one person but now as a different person, finding something within my own character ... this will always be more fun to me than finding a new area.

Nyralotep · « **Reply #19 on:** August 29, 2007, 10:57:07 pm »

Myself, I'm of two minds on the topic.

First, I both would like to level faster because the fact of the matter is I really only have one day a week I know I can play all day and that's Saturday. Even then it's not a full day. The other days I can play a few hours here and there but nowhere near enough for a quest. Now I like to level for much the same reason as everyone else, better abilities, better able to survive in difficult areas, the chance to go harder places for good loot.

But level 20 is hard to get over if you only have a schedule such as mine and some here have even less time. I mean I have 3 20th level characters but one is permed and one is virtually not played because the mechanics were changed and the character doesn't really fit me personally so I play Zup anymore, trying to get into whatever parties I can to grind past that 3 mil xp barrier. I just have to make short goals, such as under 2 mil, then next when I hit 7 mil and so on. And these characters are nowhere new, the permed one was from Beta 4 and the other 2 were made early on in '05, well over 2 years old.

And on top of this is the knowledge that I will have to move soon, most likely to a new state so I don't know how much time I have left and how much I can play once I get there.

Now my second though is that I understand Leanthar's side too. He didn't even feel comfortable opening up levels above level 20 for a long time but eventually did do it, for the player. There was even a time when you couldn't go above level 20 without a ECDQ and even that was changed to where there is a barrier to overcome, but it can be overcome. So in perspective, things are much more open then they used to be and things have continually gotten better for the player.

And let's face it, some people have more time than others. Some of the people who had unlimited time before have had a little something called reality finally sneak into their life and they have had to find jobs and are now finding that they too don't have time similar to me.

The upshot is that those who have the time will use relaxed limits to rocket up in level. While those that have limited time will see a slightly better time leveling but will still be left in the dust by those that have more time to play. The post 'For Those Fast Leveling Charcters' was made to address some people that I knew and adventured with from time to time and they did rocket up in level...but again they had the time and rules were different back then. Leanthar and the team first appealed (as they always do from what I have seen) for the community to not do something just because they can.

And Leanthar doesn't want a whole sever of level 40's, it kind of cheapens the amount of time someone like Ozy has put in to get to where he is now.

Anyway, I'm rambling and need to get to sleep for an early day tomorrow where too much time will be spent on the bus.