Author Topic: Beautiful game engine (Read 651 times)

Tori · « **on:** July 07, 2007, 04:52:27 pm »

I've been browsing around, looking at the thread for a new game engine for the next version of this world layonara. From what I've read, it seems the nwn version is shrinking and my understanding it's going for pay as you play.

I've been looking for neverwinter nights worlds to play on, and keeping a watch on this one. The world seems very nice and the people good. But I can't understand the reasoning to go to a pay system to compete with games like World of Warcraft.

Unless you are going to sell the rights of the world to a large publishing/development company to broaden your user base to actually make money, the logic in this is flawed. As I see it, The user base here is too small to support a commercial venture, and if you stick to developing everything yourselves, to support the world of layonara without making it broad appeal, it will fail.

New users will think "Why should I pay for this world I know nothing about, when World of Warcraft is solid and there are millions of users to interact with? Is it guaranteed there will be users to roleplay with? Or will I shell out money to wander an empty world? "

So unless you sell layonara to a publisher with funds to advertise and get new people interested in shelling out their hard earned coin, I dont see a private comercial venture working out.

Now on another note. Why develop your own engine when there are free ones to download and develop your own world around?

Main Page - Crystal Space 3D

In todays market its impossible to make your own game engine for commercial profit and gain through a very narrow niche such as layonara.

Take this completely free world of Planeshift PlaneShift - A 3D Fantasy MMORPG

They have over 400,000 users, and a passion for the world. They make it completely free for their users. Layonara can take lessons on their model, unless the team behind want to make money, and not do it for passion.

Such beautiful graphics for a free mmorpg game. I was shocked when I saw them.

Here is a few:

And before you say anything, no I am not a promoter or user of Planeshift. If my time permits me to play games, I may join up. For now I just browse the web and post my views where ever.

Now, please be adults when posting your replies, Use logic and facts maybe doing research before any inflammatory posts.

It also would be handy for the team here to give a roadmap with more information instead of generalizations. The masses panic too easily with lack of information and general statements like "We can't tell you now, don't worry about it you'll love it"

Oh, before I submit this post. Is your new game engine being paid for by people on the team? Or do you have investors giving you money?

Thank you for your time in reading this.

Tori

miltonyorkcastle · « **Reply #1 on:** July 07, 2007, 05:25:54 pm »

There's a reason why the team doesn't give out too much information: Thieves.

But that aside, I've never heard of Planeshift until now. That says something about how much I pay attention to the online gaming world. It looks pretty in the screenshots, but I'd certainly have to play in the world to get a feel for whether or not the RP and story element (actively generated) were up to par. I could never play on WoW because the RP is about as consistent as cottage cheese and individual players have no chance to make a direct impact on the story. I have no plans to move on from Layo at this point, but even if I considered Planeshift, it would have to keep on par with the depth of active story generation and high-level RP Layonara maintains.

As far as Leanthar's little venture working out, who knows. You're right, it's risky and will likely be a pretty tough sell. And while the answer, "We'll see when we get there," may not be satisfactory, it's the wisest and best answer for now.

Zergon · « **Reply #2 on:** July 07, 2007, 05:34:09 pm »

Personally the rp on WoW and similar games... blows
Now the RP and story action on Ultima Online... and the way the players change their world... is un matched for over 10 years now...

I've played many worlds based on Planeshift... most have better RP than layo could dream of...
Personally I left layo.
Never liked the dm's nor L
Nor their sneaky uninformative ways.
Nor their public way of handling things.

All in all I was only on layo for the players that I RP'd with... most have left now along with me.

I have created an nwn world for players to RP in... It's community built... and run... Everyone is welcome to come and RP or build or help in any way.
We have many things layo does not have... and we'll continue to add to this list.

I wish L luck on his current projects but i'm sorry I will not be joining him.

The World of Mystrix << world of mystrix homepage..
I see tori is free to post here but fear is causing editing of my posts

Zergon

AeonBlues · « **Reply #3 on:** July 07, 2007, 05:41:44 pm »

Zergon, you have the diplomacy of a dwarven defender trying to move silently, while wearing full platemail and beating a drum.

AeonBlues

Zergon · « **Reply #4 on:** July 07, 2007, 05:43:30 pm »

Thats right i do...
I am open, honest and straight to the point...
Harsh as it may be... but the truth sometimes hurts...
We grow from this.
People Like The Truth... wheather they like how it's said or not.

miltonyorkcastle · « **Reply #5 on:** July 07, 2007, 05:53:45 pm »

"Better RP" and no quests means "Not better RP." But that's only my opinion.

And Ultima Online having unmatched RP... excuse me, but **roars laughing, laughing so hard that I fall out of my chair. I wipe a tear from my eye**

Seriously... that's got to be one of the funniest thing I've heard in years. If Ultima Online is anything close to your standard of RP (which, by your comment, it seems to be), then it's no wonder you didn't like it here.

I suppose there's nothing wrong with that standard, it just doesn't jive with me.

Skywatcher · « **Reply #6 on:** July 07, 2007, 05:54:52 pm »

But not everyone shares your opinion of L or Layo or their plans for the future so please just take your opinions and move on and let those of us who enjoy playing here continue. Thanks. It just sounds so petty when you have already left and created your own world and then you come back here complaining and promoting your own world. Enjoy your world and leave us alone please.

Harlas Ravelkione · « **Reply #7 on:** July 07, 2007, 05:58:36 pm »

Truth is - in this matter - based on your own perception Zergon. It is good that you have moved on to build your own world where you can promote your own views and the truth as you see it. Please stop to tell others what they should think about Layonara in general, the GMs or Leanthar. Let people find out for themselves, please.

Good luck with your world.

Harlas

darby snails · « **Reply #8 on:** July 07, 2007, 06:06:18 pm »

What exactly is your point, Tori? This doesn't seem to be an outlandish or impossible goal-- like creating another Warcraft in your basement would be-- but a way for a group of people with the creative and technical know-how to do it creating an independent online game. I am assuming that as long as it more or less pays for itself it will be considered a success (as in, it doesn't have to be huge or make a lot of money.)

And you know what, It might fail, it might not. I'll definitely give it a try because I did enjoy this server when I played here, and from my limited experience playing online rpgs (NWN based or not) it's the most mature environment I've ever seen... But then again there are things about Layonara that aren't to my liking either and may keep me away (in particular, it's extremely difficult and time consuming to start a new character or be a casual player at all.)

But all in all they're doing it, and they're doing it on their own, and I think it's to be applauded. You really never know what's going to succeed or fail until it's out there, especially with something like this. Considering this is, in the end, a labor of love (and as far as I know no one is quitting their job or taking multiple mortgages for this..) then what's the problem? Would it be better for anyone if they just said "you're right, it's too hard?"

Let me leave you with this-- I work in entertainment... well, way low level, but I have worked for some people with impressive Hollywood resumes. Every single one of them who's sold a movie or TV show or produced a documentary or been in a garage band or whatever has encountered people with your attitude, saying "oh, it's been done" or "that's a ridiculous idea" or whatever. And every one of them who's had success has completely ignored them. You may think you're offering criticism, but you're just being a naysayer, Of course lot of them have failed along the way, too, but that's the chance you take when you start any creative venture.

twidget658 · « **Reply #9 on:** July 07, 2007, 06:07:56 pm »

What good is a one-sided view? Other people with opposing opinions should be able to express themselves openly as well as the people with favoring opinions. That offers a balance.

Please, let everyone speak and allow this to be a balanced and tasteful thread.

Zergon · « **Reply #10 on:** July 07, 2007, 06:10:01 pm »

I'm not telling anyone what to think about anything
I'm simply telling people (since L is reading this and hasn't deleted it yet)
That there is something more out there for free.. that they can be a part of.
"The Truth" is the truth and cannot be changed by perception.. if you perceive the truth incorrectly then the truth you perceive is a lie.
I have not built my own world
as it says in my sig.... Players ARE building my world.

Lets be adults here and look at my factual posts...
I have not told anyone what to think.
I have not told anyone to do anything.
I merely stated MY opinion (which doesn't need flaming or even a comment posted about it) again MY opinion.
Any member can post here... this is a place to post off topic...
Well this is off topic.
Please read my posts with a blank mind (hard for some to accomplish)
MY POSTS ARE NOT ATTACKS
yours however seem to be

Chongo · « **Reply #11 on:** July 07, 2007, 06:14:51 pm »

Zergon, as someone who has done what you've done (gone off to create my own servers due to discontent with Layonara), only to a much larger scope and degree, please, regardless of your opinions on Layonara, Leanthar, the staff here, me, canadian geese.. whatever, consider this advice.

Establishing a gameworld that is going to succeed demands professionalism, and the majority of individuals over the age of 13 will immediately recognize posts like yours below as a massive red flag and avoid you like the plague. It shows a dirty streak of sorts in how you deal with problems, and they'll usually identify that behavior as indicative of how you'll deal with them as a player.

I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors, I know it isn't easy to start a gameworld in the land of NWN giants like Layonara, Avlis, or Amia... but realize how bad you sound when you attempt things like this. Everyone makes mistakes, back out of it gracefully and recognize that just because this is the internet, you don't have to burn every bridge that you've passed over.

Zergon · « **Reply #12 on:** July 07, 2007, 06:18:15 pm »

Ok just for everyones information...
I deal with problems logically
I listen to all points of view with an open mind.
I take all points of view into account before deciding.
I try to include at least part of everyones idea into my final decision.
To see how I operate... just have a look at my forums...
or join me in game and discuss things with me in real time
guarantee you will like my personality.
most of the contributors to my world (34 layo players) have no problem with how i do things.
Most are impressed.
but thanks for the advice... i will not become a leashed diplomat... I am me..
I am kind and generous ... but my words bite

You want diplomacy... go talk to the president... you want good clean conversation that's intelligent and gets work done (and mostly comes from hard physical labor in factories (( the people that make what you use everyday )) ) then come to me... i am a real person... no leash .. no politics... professional is another word for sugar coated... which i will not do

Interia_Discordius · « **Reply #13 on:** July 07, 2007, 06:20:09 pm »

Can we not allow this to become a flame thread and mainly just sit and regard all the different perspectives brought up and allowed? That is what I believe we are all trying to do with these posts, after all.

Maybe we should just ignore replies and post our own views and let it be.

Thak · « **Reply #14 on:** July 07, 2007, 06:23:53 pm »

I agree Internia back on topic:

Those screenies look nice.

Zergon · « **Reply #15 on:** July 07, 2007, 06:29:51 pm »

Indeed... the game play is good as well
It's graphics are designed with a free public tool called Blender... It's available for windows and linux.

Fatherchaos · « **Reply #16 on:** July 07, 2007, 06:33:40 pm »

I've followed the planeshift development for some time. To Tori, thanks for reminding me that I haven't checked out the game in about 1+ years. I played it back before there was a combat system so the rp availability consisted of wandering around town to explore and gathering little goodies here and there.

Although, to stay on topic here, to L and the layo team the crystal-space engine might be something worthwhile to review for your upcoming project. It's pretty far along, multi-platform, and would generally save your team the torment of inventing another round shaped device called a wheel (tongue in cheek joke here from a berk whose worked in the gamining industry

).

Although I'm not sure how the licensing would work out.

Back to playing Overlord now.

Talan Va'lash · « **Reply #17 on:** July 07, 2007, 06:34:10 pm »

Quote

Tori vbmenu_register("postmenu_529622", true);
Recruit

Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1
Thanks: 2
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

Why would someone create a forum account for purposes of posting this if they weren't promoting their own project? Heh, at least it was done tactfully and the user seems to have done their homework on their audience.

lonnarin · « **Reply #18 on:** July 07, 2007, 06:34:34 pm »

Come on folks, loyalty is one thing, but rabid fantatacism never helped anybody, and going on a wild-eyed Layonaran flamewar jihad against the competition just makes them look better. While one might not care for their opinions, directly insulting the people making them lowers you beneath their level and only proves their point more. Somebody telling you how they feel is not them telling you how to feel just because you don't like the way they feel. It's easy to claim 100% unanimity when you silence or shout down all opposing views... but it takes a cival mind to simply stand up and say "well that's your opinion, man. But I like layo because of x, y, z". So far in this post I haven't seen any "Layo Rocks because..." posts, just angry negativity "take your opinions and move on" and "you have the diplomacy of a dwarf" are arguments that only make me feel like playing Layo less.

Fatherchaos · « **Reply #19 on:** July 07, 2007, 06:48:47 pm »

Layo rocks because of the players. It rolls because of the dice. OH, those multifaceted, colorful little random generators of numbers.

Did anyone else notice the odd coincidence that today's date is 7-7-7?