The World of Layonara  Forums

Author Topic: Flatfooted and dodge AC  (Read 115 times)

Skywatcher

Flatfooted and dodge AC
« on: November 01, 2007, 05:38:23 pm »
I have a technical question.  I know that being flatfooted removes some bonuses to AC.  There are many ways to get dodge AC that stck up to 20 but does all of that go away due to being flatfooted?  Like for instance Divine shield gives dodge AC but it doesn't seem like a divine AC bonus should be affected by whether you are flatfooted or not.  It just occurred to me to ask the question so I can understand the mechanics if it ever comes up.  Thanks.
 

Filatus

Re: Flatfooted and dodge AC
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2007, 05:39:58 pm »
From: Neverwinter Nights: Terra's Guide to Armor Class and Stacking

Terra's Guide to Armor Class and Stacking

Disclaimer: The purpose of this topic is to help anyone that does not understand the different types of Armor Class bonuses and/or simply wishes to have more information on how the various bonuses work together. If you find this topic helpful, I would ask you to post a link to it if you see someone else with questions that would be answered by it. Even if it only helps one person though, it was well worth writing.


If you've played Neverwinter Nights for a while, you've probably learned that there are several types of Armor Class bonuses and that some will work together (Stack) and some will not. Knowing what stacks and what doesn't can often mean the difference between useful equipment and useless equipment.

To begin, I have divided up the types of Armor Class into 6 categories: Natural, Armor, Shield, Deflection, Dodge, and Other. The first 5 categories will be familiar to anyone who has looked at the types of Armor bonuses the various items give. The sixth (Other) category is collection of several Armor Class bonuses that don't fit into any of the other categories. Below you'll find a list of all the types of Armor Class bonuses found in Neverwinter Nights however first we should talk about Stacking.

As mentioned above, Stacking is a term used to describe when two types of Armor Class bonuses will both add to your character's Armor Class or whether only the higher bonus of the two will apply.

All bonuses stack with each other (ie Armor will stack with Shield and Deflection will stack with Natural...etc). In other words, if you have an Armor with a +4 Armor bonus and a ring with +5 Deflection bonus, you will have +9 Armor Class since they stack.

Armor, Shield, Deflection, and Natural Armor bonuses will not stack bonuses of the same type. This means that if you have a Ring which gives +4 Deflection Armor class and a cloak which gives +5 Deflection Armor class, you will only get the +5 Deflection from the cloak since it's the higher bonus.

Dodge bonuses will stack up to a maximum of 20 points*. This means that if you have a pair of boots giving you +15 Dodge bonus, Haste (+4 Dodge), and Shadow Evade giving +4 Dodge, you will only have 20 points of Dodge.

* Note: It should be noted that the maximum bonus of any type (Other not included) is 20 points however this usually only matters for Dodge since its the only type of AC that stacks with itself.

Onto the list!

Sources of Natural Armor Class
Item: Amulet AC Bonus (+1-20)
Feat: Epic Mage Armor (+5)
Spell: Mage Armor (+1)
Spell: Barkskin (+3-5)
Spell: Shadow Shield (+5)
Spell: Tenser's Transformation (+4)

Sources of Armor Armor Class
Item: Armor AC Bonus (+1-20)
Item: Bracer AC Bonus (+1-20)
Feat: Epic Mage Armor (+5)
Spell: Mage Armor (+1)
Spell: Magic Vestment (+1-5)

Sources of Shield Armor Class
Item: Shield AC Bonus (+1-20)
Spell: Magic Vestment (+1-5)

Sources of Deflection Armor Class
Item: Ring AC Bonus (+1-20)
Item: Belt AC Bonus (+1-20)
Item: Helm AC Bonus (+1-20)
Item: Cloak AC Bonus (+1-20)
Item: Weapon AC Bonus (+1-20)
Feat: Epic Mage Armor (+5)
Spell: Shield (+4)
Spell: Mage Armor (+1)
Spell: Shield of Faith (+2-5)
Spell: Protection from Evil (+2 versus selected alignment)
Spell: Aura Versus Alignment (+4 versus selected alignment)
Spell: Magic Circle of Protection (+2 versus selected alignment)

Sources of Dodge Armor Class
Item: Boots AC Bonus (+1-20)
Feat: Bard Song (+2-7)
Feat: Shadow Evade (+1-4)
Feat: Divine Shield (+1-20)
Spell: Haste (+4)
Spell: Mage Armor (+1)
Spell: Epic Mage Armor (+5)
Spell: Undeath's Eternal Foe (+4)

Other Sources of Armor Class
Char: Character Base AC (10)
Item: Armor Base (+1-8)
Item: Shield Base (+1-3)
Feat: Dodge (+1)
Feat: Bone Skin (+2-16)
Feat: Small Stature (+1)
Feat: Monk Wisdom AC Bonus (+1-20)
Feat: Monk 5 Level AC Bonus (+1-8)
Feat: Draconic Armor (+1-4)
Feat: Expertise/Improved Expertise (+5/+10)
Skill: Tumble (+1-8)


The first five sources don't need too much explanation however the Other category could bear a little clarification. The Other category holds several bonuses that belong to no other category and could actually be categories in themselves since they all stack with each other however for simplicity I have put them all together.

The first source is your character's base AC of 10. This is your natural base. The next two items (Armor and Shield base) are the standard Armor Class bonuses from wearing armor and carrying a shield.

The Dodge feat, oddly enough, doesn't provide Dodge Armor Class but it is instead counted as its own separate Armor Class. Next we have Bone Skin which is a Pale Master feat that gets bigger with more Pale Master levels. The Small Stature bonus which comes from being a Halfling grants a +1 bonus to Armor Class.

The Monk Wisdom AC bonus is just what it sounds like, it's the Armor Class bonus a Monk gets from her Wisdom modifier. The Monk 5 level bonus represents a +1 bonus to Armor Class a Monk gets every 5 levels. Draconic Armor is the Armor Class bonus a Red Dragon Disciple gets.

Expertise and Improved Expertise are feats which give the character a bonus to Armor Class but reduce Attack Bonus. Finally, the Tumble bonus is such that a character gains +1 to Armor Class for every five ranks in the Tumble skill.


Addendum

I believe this list to be both complete and accurate, however additions and/or corrections would be plenty appreciated. I would ask that anyone posting with additional information please test it first to make sure it is indeed correct. The less misinformation the better.

Finally, not to sound harsh but please do not post anything about the PRC in this thread. Those who would be helped most by this topic are those still attempting to understand the mechanics of Neverwinter Nights itself and including PRC information would likely only serve to cause unnecessary confusion. Please and thank you.

Edit: Bolding fix
Edit 2: Changed a couple words, added Weapon AC Bonus.
Edit 3: Added Undeath's Eternal Foe

~Terra~
 

Filatus

Re: Flatfooted and dodge AC
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2007, 05:42:14 pm »
On Layo, the Duelist AC bonus also counts as Dodge Armour and Undeath's Eternal Foe has been changed to be dodge ac vs undead. Premonition also gives +2 Dodge AC.
 

s0ulz

Re: Flatfooted and dodge AC
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2007, 06:02:12 pm »
Despite the list, you failed to answer the question.

All dodge AC is lost when caught flat-footed (even if the character has the Uncanny Dodge feat).
 

Skywatcher

Re: Flatfooted and dodge AC
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2007, 06:05:54 pm »
The only things I see missing here are the dex bonus to AC which I think is dodge and the epic feat Armor Skin which adds +2 and I think it's in the other category but what I am wondering is how being flatfooted affects the operation of each of these types of AC.  I heard that dex bonus is removed when flatfooted which is dodge AC I think.  Are other AC bonuses removed due to being flatfooted?  Thanks.


Edit:  Looks up to the above post.  Thanks
 

Hellblazer

Re: Flatfooted and dodge AC
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2007, 06:12:37 pm »
not all are lost depending on which feat you take. uncanny dodge is one of those feat that retains the ac and dexterity bonus even if you are caught flatfooted.

don't know if this helps you.

Weeblie

Re: Flatfooted and dodge AC
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2007, 06:23:36 pm »
All bonuses that are "really" considered dodge AC are lost.

Dexterity bonus is... hm... considered in a category of its own. Which is also the reason it's not counting towards the +20 cap.
 

s0ulz

Re: Flatfooted and dodge AC
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2007, 06:25:59 pm »
Dexterity bonii are not Dodge AC, so they get lost only if you don't have the Uncanny Dodge line of feats.

Armor Skin is a scripted feat bonus to AC which stacks always and is after picking considered as base AC for the character (12 instead of 10).
 

Xirion

Re: Flatfooted and dodge AC
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2007, 06:28:49 pm »
Dexterity AC bonus is lost when caught flat-footed unless the character has the Uncanny Dodge feat.
Dodge bonus AC is always lost when caught flat-footed.
AC gained from ranks in the Tumble skill is always lost when caught flat-footed.
The Monk AC bonus from his Wisdom modifier, and the bonus AC gained from Monk levels are never lost when caught flat-footed.

Taken from LORE, so hellblazer is pretty right. dexterity bous is only lost if you have not the uncanny dodge feat, while the dodge AC-bonus is allways lost, if cought flatfooted.

EDIT: ooops, much too late it eems ;)
 

Hellblazer

Re: Flatfooted and dodge AC
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2007, 06:37:27 pm »
thats where i took the info myself and since my char Brian (Njord) has all of those already i knew there was something to help in the feats somewhere;)

LORE: Uncanny Dodge

Although in fine prints at the very bottom of the long page you find this.

Contrary to its name, Uncanny Dodge does not allow a character to retain Dodge AC when flat-footed, only the Dexterity bonus to AC.

So every one is partialy right:)