I'll try to keep this short and to the point, I started out by going though the thread and quoting statements and putting up counter arguments for them. Well... I ended up with a thread that would make most people fall asleep and at something that was more or less one long list of complaints
All points/arguments from me are made out from the current version of Layo's spawns (obviously I can't argue out from something I don't know what will be)
Spawn balance should always and only be viewed at in a mechanical and engine wise way. Spawn's are build to function without a dm behind them, meaning they depend on the script that is put on them and no offence that's script is more stupid than a hole in the ground. The moment a dm is sitting behind it he/she is able to adjust it fitting a single player or a group regardless of class and level.
Spawn with brain (Dm controlling it)
Random epic level mage is running in xx location fitting his level, He got his shadow shield, greater stone, protecting from spells etc on. Runs in ready to fire off a wail... ups.. it's not working? Wait.. the epic npc mage decided to enter counter-mode. What a cheater. Wait wait wait, the second epic npc caster dared to disjunction me?I don't have to say what would happen to the poor mage there do I?
There was a time when Dm's would do this to a large extend, not log on and kill a player/group as in my example, but log on and twig spawns so they matched the player/group and offered a challenge and a nice break from peoples routine run. Sadly this happens less and less. Why you ask? Lack of dm's, the dm's around having less time due to real life and so on, and...because of the player base in general, when a dm adjusted the spawns to provide a bigger challenge they were accused of ruining peoples fun and worse in some cases viewed to attack groups/person for personal reasons. I don't speak for anyone else but if someone inform me I in their view ruin their fun and are doing it for personal reasons than I try to avoid that person.
Maybe that's something to consider for all of us?
To me balance either means you look at it purely from a mechanical view, in this case you can't makes spawns that demands half the classes to group with a caster, when the caster don't need the non-caster and sorry but in Layo 90% of all spawns build for epic groups (21+) then not only don't the caster need a non-caster, he don't even need the group. In my opinion that has nothing at all to do with dungeon and dragons where the basic idea is to have four players (cleric,fighter,mage,rogue) in order to survive they need to depend on the skills of each other.
Does that mean that Layonara should be build with that in mind?
No of course not, you build a spawn so it reflects the player base, m
eaning your everyday spawn should offer a challenge to the majority of the player base. That will leave some either ahead (read stronger character than the average character) or behind (read weaker character than the average character) And it's the later group I'm trying to aid without disturbing the balance that is already there for the majority, on top of that I try to take into account that the nwn version of Layonara only has a fixed amount of time left and the people who need to do this are all busy working on the mmo.
Layonara is low magic world therefore magic should be powerful and special[/]
This is one of the statements I have heard most often the last few days.
Powerful yes, Special no, at least not how I understand special, to me special=rare
As long as you can't travel 5 area's without falling over a npc caster then magic is not rare.
As long as there is no restriction on Caster classes, then magic is not rare, the EPIC caster is however still rare, because I agree somewhat with Miltonyorkcastle but the amount of casters (high and low level) means magic isn't rare
Now that we established that you have a large amount of pc casters (check the server status) and you have a huge[/u] amount of npc caster, you can start to look at how that effect the spawn balance.
The large amount of pc casters means the majority of non-casters can get wards, that in turn forces the team to build spawn that take that into account, or accept that that the majority of players can run around without a care in the world because they're too powerful compared to the everyday spawn, that in return hit the people who don't have a caster to aid them and create a unhealthy relation between caster/non-caster. You can fix this in a number of ways
1 add items that lower the difference between people traveling with casters and people without (if you think this over then you'll notice, Ahhh.. the increase in healing and items that offer death ward protection is due to lack of pc clerics)
2 redo spawns
3 remove buffspells and npc casters (you can leave a few but they should be restricted to special places, and you will still need to redo all the none caster spawns because they have ab/ac/hp balanced for warded up pc's)
I still like option 1 most because it to me seems like the least amount of work, no it wont make your non-caster able to run in among a spawn and instant kill them like a epic caster build for high dc.
Suggested change
Enchantment rod weapon (you can come up with a fancy name if you wish)
Add +2 to enchantment to item of choice.
You can add it to all types of weapon as well as gloves so you're not leaving any class or weapon type out.
You made the distance between a buffed and unbuffed character ever so slightly smaller, and giving non-caster the heart blood of their trade back, allowing them Ic and mechanical wise to gain the weapon the spawns (the everyday spawn on the server and the spawns used by dm's on quest already assume you have, due to the large amount of pc casters in the world) and wouldn't it be nice just for once when you're standing on the current plot quest and about to be attacked by drach's, that your epic character wouldn't have to do go..
sorry queenie but I can't touch those drachs without a wizard enchanting my mithril blade I used hours to get, followed by tracking down a master weapon smith who could make it. But hey wait the level 25 mage standing over there can cast a level 3 spell on it... ahh there we go off to save the world
I'm not going to comment on the idea itself, at least not right now, but it's important to point out that raising the enhancement on weapons and armors will also increase the level requirements for them as well.
I don't have a lot of knowledge on scripts so I asked around instead; you can by reducing the value enchantments are set to give in the 2da file reduce the level reg. my suggestion would go like this
Bronze level reg 0
Iron level reg 5
Adamantium level reg 10
Mithril level reg 15
Enchantment rod +10 level reg
If you looks this over then now your weapon follows the gmw spell and in return the + spawns take into account you have.
But gmw is a spell and this is permanent:
Looks at
resting and
GMW you'll notice the duration of the spell follow the resting so engine wise there is no difference.
Mithril shouldn't be for level 15 characters!!!!!!
Well it's not, the location is still down in the deep hidden behind a spawn build for a group of level 25 characters.
Players will harvest these and sell iron weapons with a +2 rod on:
I guess I forgot post the properties of the Rod
Enchantment weapon rod
Plot marked. Can't be trade or sold, now the actual rod are can't be sold in its item form
when activated fires of script doing the following.
Add +2 to current enchantment (important to note it should add not overwrite)
Check for previous adds (this one I'm not too sure of but the idea is to remove the ability to stack)
Add plot marking to item. Your no longer able to trade or sell the item. So no you can't open up a show with 1000 +3 iron weapons.
So should this be a drop or craftable item?
Permanent drop with a respawn time on x hours, placed in the misty village (aimed for level 20ish?), there is already a nice pile of gold there with nothing in it, it's a magic dead area. Wheee my non-caster can get it without having to depend on casters and I can even make a trip out of it with friends.
To summon up, the item isn't going to disrupt the ic balance there is between bronze, iron, adamantium and mithril. Yes engine wise you can make a +3 weapon but with the overflow of casters the majority have that whenever they're playing anyhow, and with the level reg iron+rod=15 your character might be better off with an adamantium blade with an element rod on.
You can make the same for the armor/shield
Except in this regard it's to add a tiny drop of power to non-casters, as it have already been pointed out it won't matter all that much, you get either +2 or +4 to ac depending on if your shield user, in a balance view that means you remove 1 attack per non-caster critter. Since natural 20 ignore ac you're only giving people a few seconds longer to live, but hey maybe if I can get 2-3 more non-casters with me then we can now survive?
Advantage of adding the items
Non-casters get the bread of butter of their classes back, and they get a small + in gear, shifting the balance slightly back and trust me it's a small shift.
To put this into perspective, how many would believe it's fair if the team added a script that checked to see if casters were grouped and in the same area as a non-caster, if you are you can cast spell from lvl 1-9 if you're not from 1-7 that is my opinion on balance between caster and non-caster under the current spawn.
Yes a epic level non-caster can be the hero of the day, but
only[/u] if he can find a caster to ward him up, that is not encouraging grouping that is enforcing it.
So why make it a permanent drop?
Like the revamp to spells, that was done to aid casters to function in groups then this is the same, its something that should have been added when the server went from ECDQ system to WLCDQ system. So no people shouldn't have to send hours trying to get it from the epic drop list or hour's collection xx amount of cnr. In all fairness then wizards past level 25 prior to the revamp wasn't asked to relearn their spells. By placing it in a area build for lvl 20 your giving non-casters an easy way to get the mechanical advantage they need anyhow without disrupting the uniqueness of the difference weapon types. And the opportunity for the epic fighter to say:
Yes Queenie, I'll protect you from the horrible drach
Heh okay I promised it wouldn't be a rant I guess I got a little carried away..
