Author Topic: Help leveling in weapon master (Read 551 times)

Pen N Popper · « **on:** January 27, 2008, 05:56:05 pm »

Here is my fighter PC at 8th level. I'm not a big number crunching person, but I'd like to not miss anything in the next handful of levels. Any suggestions on the best way to get him to Weapon Master between his current 8th level and say 15th at the latest? What feats, etc. would be best?

He's destined to be a rapier WM with a preference for offhanding a shortsword (his main gauche). Parry is important as well to his RP.

Thanks!

ShiffDrgnhrt · « **Reply #1 on:** January 27, 2008, 05:58:42 pm »

all you need is Whirlwind and your ready! So either next level or one after you should be able to get Whirlwind and sumbit or whatever! By level 10 or eleven oyou should be ready

aragwen · « **Reply #2 on:** January 27, 2008, 06:59:19 pm »

Like Shiff said, only feat you lack is Whirlwind.

And at level 9 you will be able to take a feat, meaning you could take Weapon Master at level 10 provided you have approval for it.

I would also suggest you take weapon specialisation as that is a figher only feat and well worth it as it will add +2 damage which with a non-strength build is very useful. So you could take that at lvl 9 and then at level 10 take Whirlwind with your fighter bonus feat, meaning you can take Weapon Master at level 11, but with much better damage.

Or you could disregard that and just take Weapon Master as soon as possible.

ShiffDrgnhrt · « **Reply #3 on:** January 27, 2008, 07:09:24 pm »

I'd go with Aragwen too. Otherwise you need to wait until you have another level where you can take a fighter feat which could be bad...

Frelinder · « **Reply #4 on:** January 28, 2008, 06:18:11 am »

Hey PnP

Looks like a nice build to me

Just a few pointers and sugestions..

Important here is think on why choosing shortsword as an offhand weapon?

Rapier is considering small weapon for a human when dualwielding it so there is the same -2 AB penalty if you wield rapier in your offhand too. I can see The RP reason but in weigth there isn't any different in rapier and shortsword.. rapier probably lighter actually.
Due to your weapon of choice(3xcrit and 13-20 crit range) and weapon focus feats in rapier your offhand will suffer if going for shortsword instead of rapier

I'm not 100% on this though so would be nice if someone could confirm this *nods*

And even if there is -4 penalty(like for scimithars) the upside makes up for the loss of AB if WM.
My Boon have
weapon of choice +1,
weapon focus +1,
epic weapon focus +2,
wepon spez+2 dmg,
epic weapon spez +4 dmg
WM crits (13-20-x3)

atribute in scimithars that he would be missing out for is offhand if he used a shortsword. When looking at the numbers it is whorth the -4 penalty instead of -2.

Also wait whith the improved two weapon fighting feat untill he gets atleast lvl 5 in WM. my advise here is that you suffer alot if dualwielding in low lvls due to lack of AC and its gharder to hit(lower AB). My Advice is to RP a dualwielding character that it takes time to learn and master fighting whith two swords so use a shiled( small or large size, not tower since he is an dex fighter) untill he reach higher lvls and can master dualwielding.

I think that Knockdown and Imp knockdown are the feats you should go for after getting whirwelwind attack. These feats are a fighters best friend

I don't know if you are going to throw in rogue lvls in this one.. but if you are since this is an dexfighter maybe it would be wise to put two or three in there before you take WM lvls to get higher tumble AC and the feat Canny Defence. On the other hand going for weapon spez feat and do a 13/7 or 10/10 splitt to lvl 20 to get maxed Base AB (20) and maybe start taking rouge lvls at lvl 21 is another good way to go. If doing so he will be better at lvl 25 but it will be harder to get there

If Rogue feels wrong for your character I sugest duelist.. Or just fighter/WM =) But if going for just fighter/WM I sugets also get improved expertise. So when needed he can get in defensife stand.. Otherwise he will find it hard to defend himself in tuff situations (facing many at the same time and so forth)

Just send me a PM if you have questions

s0ulz · « **Reply #5 on:** January 28, 2008, 06:33:27 am »

Quote from: Frelinder

Important here is think on why choosing shortsword as an offhand weapon?

Rapier is considering small weapon for a human when dualwielding it so there is the same -2 AB penalty if you wield rapier in your offhand too. I can see The RP reason but in weigth there isn't any different in rapier and shortsword.. rapier probably lighter actually.
Due to your weapon of choice(3xcrit and 13-20 crit range) and weapon focus feats in rapier your offhand will suffer if going for shortsword instead of rapier

I'm not 100% on this though so would be nice if someone could confirm this *nods*

This is incorrect. A rapier is a medium sized weapon that in the offhand still produces a -4 penalty. It's a finessable weapon, but still it's size makes it more difficult to dual wield.

Frelinder · « **Reply #6 on:** January 28, 2008, 07:27:15 am »

Thanks s0ulz.. -4 it is *nods*

Chongo · « **Reply #7 on:** January 28, 2008, 10:09:09 am »

Take four levels of bard. Chicks dig it.

aragwen · « **Reply #8 on:** January 28, 2008, 10:36:07 am »

Quote from: Chongo

Take four levels of bard. Chicks dig it.

*looks at Chongo* You have to take five levels of class en taking that fith level of bard will make you arrogant and then the chicks will dig you even less

jan · « **Reply #9 on:** January 28, 2008, 11:58:30 am »

Make sure your " intimidate " is 4 in game , i had put 4 points in it but needed 5 due to a penalty on it from another thing .

Aragwen has a good advice since it isn't a strength build .

I think Frelinder is also correct to a point , the specialisations you take in rapier will help to get the rapier in your off hand to not be as penalised as other weapons since the same pluses from specialisation will count towards the off hand weapon as-well .

Odranoela · « **Reply #10 on:** January 28, 2008, 12:23:26 pm »

Using two rapiers and having the specialization, improved critical, weapon focus, weapon of choice etc.. Will make STR obsolete. So it's a good choice for DEX based fighters.

ShiffDrgnhrt · « **Reply #11 on:** January 28, 2008, 12:52:49 pm »

Just be aware, the higher your Dex Bonus Becomes, the lower level types of armor will be what you will need to wear to make 100% use of your Dex.

I'd max it at 18 without magic stuff and use Chain Shirt. If you were to wear full plate or something you'd lose the Dex Bonus to AC AND to AB. Make sure you think about that. I'd point your stat points in Dex to 18, then the rest in Str. if I was you, I'd put 1 point in dex at 12, and 2 in Str at 16 and 20 (which we all know PnP, is HARD to get to). Max dex at 18 at level 12 if you get there, and put everything else is STR. You will need it for damage, and carrying ability if you want to be able to Carry the CNR you will need to make the Iron Rapier.

Other then that. I DONT suggest Rogue before WM, in fact I dont suggest it at all. Yes, the bonuses like Sneak Attack, Uncanny Dodge and such are nice, but put it this way. You are gonna be WM at level 10 (capable anyway). If you take even ONE level, you need the four more Per server rules. That means your split is 10 Fgt/5WM/5 Rogue. At level 20. Congrats, you have 3,000,000 XP to get through before you are a useful WM, since you NEED Ki Crit (lvl 7 WM) to be full potential. Not worth it since we both know you might NEVER GET THERE!

Take WM ASAP. You'll be better for it, and heck, if you make it past 20, Take all the Rogue levels you want.

OH! And Imp Expertise. Don't take it unless you would like to be A iron statue that can't hit anything. Its best combo is with a shield, so you'd have a great AC, but -10 to All Attack rolls(After BAB is added).

heh, and just remember, it took me an even year to get shiff to 19 with 3 SS left, and He uses a Great Sword. His AC is at best 27... And I hardly use Expertise. If /when we get to RP, you'll learn how Shiff does it. WM dont NEed to be THE front line.

Oh, and Knock Down and Imp KD, Great! Takum ASAP. I'm not sure if the weapon size helps with KD (I dont think it does) but when you can KD Giants/Mages/Dragons (Shiff KD a Dragon once!) with it and then pummel them and rinse Repeat, you live longer.

Frelinder · « **Reply #12 on:** January 28, 2008, 01:31:31 pm »

Hmmm.. I personaly would go all the way whith dex. This to get maximum AB. Maximum AC. If so when your charcter reach lvl 20 dex is 32 whith items that means +11 AC.. Thats better then any full plate out there

Damage he will do enough thanks to WM crits and weapon Spez. For every +1 for extra damage he will lose +1 AC and +1 AB.. Not whorth it.

Also when wearing no heavy armor (just iron/cobalt/mithril clothes) and no heavy shield.. He will have nice carrying ability.. (use lion/malarbags and str rings to swap to when needed for heavy loads;)

And if... that is IF! you wanna take rogue lvls before 20 thats no problem.

-Stop taking fighter lvls. Take first rogue lvl at lvl 9 and pick the feat whirwelwind attack. then you can take your 7 WM lvls and the rest four rogue lvls in the order you wan't before 20. The downside here is that you will miss the feat wepon spez.. on the other hand sneak attack makes up for that when you flank..

As Shiff stated it takes time and is hard to get to lvl 20+. As I know that you know

so If you wanna have rogue lvls this year 2008.. you better take them before 20.. hehe. Otherwise he will be better when he is epic if you wait whith them..

Imp Expertise can be very handy. Especally if you are not going to take any rogue lvls and do a 10/10 splitt and continue take WM lvls after lvl 20.

First because your AC will be low whithout rogue lvls so be able to switch into High defensive mode are great.
Also because later on your AB will get so High whith WM lvls that you can stand in imp expertise and still hit fine.

WM lvl 5 +1 AB
WM lvl 10 +1 AB
WM lvl 13 +1 AB
WM lvl 15 + 1 AB
WM lvl 16 + 1 AB

At lvl 26 (that Barion are soonish) you can stand in Imp expertise, almost untouchable and still hit them easy...

It sux to have low AC.. ask Sall, or any Ranger out there....

Ofcourse my wiev of looking at it.. All upp to you mate

ShiffDrgnhrt · « **Reply #13 on:** January 28, 2008, 01:49:48 pm »

Whatever you DO do, make sure it's what makes sense to the Character. Don't make a lumbering Ox like Shiff a Rogue, and don't make a sneaky squirrely man a Barbarian

What makes sense for the PC is more fun in the long run then High AC and AB, or whatever other things a build can offer.

remember RP server, not "Powerbuild" Server

Make what makes sense, not ... ANYTHING else

lonnarin · « **Reply #14 on:** January 31, 2008, 05:29:18 pm »

Going for a dex build, I'd personally go with two shortswords since the WM feats and the Weapon Finesse would apply to both, and you would get the cleanest offhand attack rolls. You put improved crit and the improved improved crit from WM together and you have a 15-20/x3 crit range... 13-20/X3 if you get somebody to cast keen on you. Chain Shirt is a nice piece of armor too, being sturdier than a studded leather and just as easy to move around in tumbling, sneaking, etc.

Pibemanden · « **Reply #15 on:** January 31, 2008, 05:31:28 pm »

Just for the record, the spell keen weapon only works on slashing weapons so it wont work on shortswords who are piercing

Frelinder · « **Reply #16 on:** January 31, 2008, 05:54:36 pm »

*nods at lonnarinen* That would probably be best to go from the start. But two feats is already spent in rapier

lonnarin · « **Reply #17 on:** January 31, 2008, 07:07:19 pm »

Aye, thanks Storold, totally right. That's why most weaponmasters go for scimitar typically. Its strange how in NWN2 now they have the weapon of impact and keen spells for both bludgeon and slashing weapons, but they left out something for piercing crit range. When you think about it, piercing weapons really should have more chance of causing severe damage due to rupturing organs... slashing and bludgeoning weapons usually have a harder time finding their way past the rib cage. Of course, that's what precise strike entails.

I wonder what a duelist weaponmaster would be like... *drools at the mere thought of it* Now that would be nasty... 13-20/X3 crits with 3d6 extra precise strike dmg per hit... Overkill.

ShiffDrgnhrt · « **Reply #18 on:** January 31, 2008, 07:25:22 pm »

yes but would take FOREVER to build here on LAyo

Pseudonym · « **Reply #19 on:** January 31, 2008, 07:55:04 pm »

I read enough threads on perfect character builds that I was moved to explain the real perfect character build.

Straight rogue. Removes all temptation to powerbuild and solo. You never have to worry about Divine Relation cos' no-one is casting buffs on you anyway.

Pardon the arrogance of using my own PC Arkolio for illustration.

Strength of about 12. Strong enough to carry the meagre array of equipment you use but not strong enough that he didn't have immediate romantic-remorse after you give Akki three lion skin bags on a whim.

Dexterity of about 22. High enough to show off - leaping onto horses, off ships, from bed mantles etc, but low enough such that you, every so often, make a boo-boo and land on your bum for comical relief.

Consitiution of 14. High enough so that you can impress women. Low enough to have little effect in game.

Intelligence - 15. Just about perfect such that you can poke fun at other character's deficiencies but again, little practical benefit.

Wisdom of 8 and Charisma of 10. Best yet. They're a get out of jail free card for anything stupid that you do!

Crafting. Devote all your time to poison-crafting. The single most useless pursuit in terms of effectiveness but it allows you to have entertaining slanging matches with Hellblazer in Trade and Market Hall advertisements.

Focus on what's really important!!

[size=-2]Edit: Just being silly! The question that PnP had seemed pretty much answered above.[/size]