Layonara - my opinion

[vgn]

I'd like to point out something, but before doing so, I want to make it clear that all who enjoy role playing are welcome in Layonara whether they can only log on 1 hour a day or 12 hours a day.

Layonara is a role play focused server. We have some scripted quests to help people get a boost up through the first few levels. After level 7 or 8 though, there aren't many left to do (though there are a small sprinkling for 10+) and while grinding out killing monsters will give some XP, the bulk of your XP comes from GM run quests (or at least that is the design).

GM quests take time. Very rarely are they less than 3 hours unless it is a small improptu quest that doesn't run away with itself. 3-5 hours is probably normal with some that go longer. I understand not everyone can get on for long blocks of time to play, but the fact of the mater is, that is the trade off you unfortunately have to make with your schedule.

If you know you can only get on 1 hour at a time, then I'll realistically tell you that you are not going to level very fast. You won't get GM quest XP. You aren't going to have a lot of time to kill monsters. But I have known several people who are in this situation and just embrace the server for what it is, a great place to come and meet people and play out a role in this world. They are content that they will sit at a low level for a long time, but they don't come on to level up, they come on to converse and in general role play. If you only have a short period of time to play but leveling is very improtant to you, there are other servers out there that are geared more towards fast leveling and are more about slashing monsters than engaging in stories and role playing.

If you can put aside 3 hours or so, you can always request a CDQ and part of the CDQ process involves the GM finding a time that works for you. So maybe your 3 hour block doesn't line up well with normal quests being run. You can at least do a CDQ every two months that will fit your schedule. Just let the GM know that you only have 3 hours and if the CDQ will be longer than that, then it can be split over 2 or 3 sessions.

So, while that was a little wordy, the bottom line is more "fluff" NPC quests are not what Layonara needs and it is not what is good for the world. There are enough NPC quests to get you up through level 6-8 depending on how much adventuring you do and that really is plenty to get a foothold in this rich world. After that it is up to you to then choose to log in at level 7 and spend your time role playing in the short time you have, or you can find longer blocks and either join GM quests or request CDQs.

[Etinfall]

another note on the epic chars. There are now small quests that have a char search out a PC and ask questions about something they know alot about. This is fairly new and I still have not seen them all.

and just so you know in America, we don't get those scheduled Holidays. Unless your a student. if so then forget what I just said. We have to work all year long

your ideas were good and stated in a respectful way. I am sure the team reads them and remembers them. We just need too remember that they all work pro bono here. They have to prioritize. As with the actual building of the world. They probally would love to have 2000 npc's in Hlint. But they can't do it for lag. So they prioritize. Better playtime and less npc's or laggy server and more npc's.

[Niles09]

Aye, I have understanded the part with NPC's and lag.
About the thing with epic char stories, wich should be Rp in the world, I dont talk about telling the char's stories in details, no, but epic char's greateset deeds, usually come to a bards ear someday, and he would make a short glories story of it. Thats what I ment. About my time to play in, I've would have about two hours a day to play in, if I dont care too much about my other interests, and dont are bugged with homework. In the weekend I can probaly play those 4-6 houts Friday night.
And besides, first I've played on a hack'n slash server and I really get tired of it, have I ever said that DM quest is bad, and slashing good? well for a synopsis  what I like on Layonara is the quests the roleplay and the DM quests, as I said atthe start. In pen & paper fights are few since they fastly gets borring if it isnt some quest related fight and only about 20% of the time are spent on fight. The rest is roleplay (tending the chars needs, plannig travels, trick the evil ones, interaction and fights with very few blows in) since roleplay is what makes things fun, creating an authentic middleage fantasy atmosphere as a GM and be a part of it as a player is the great thing in Roleplaying
And at last I just wanna say Im happy that this topic changed course, since I felt a bit like the first replies was hauling down on me! I've realized a few things, but still stand on the most of the things I first said.
Thanks for a discussion so far, but I've be happy to discuss further

[teefal]

Niles09 - 8/19/2005  3:58 PM

creating an authentic middleage fantasy atmosphere...

um, nascar?  paintball?  vegas?  

(just kidding .. i know you meant middle-ages, not 40/50ish years)

[Niles09]

what can I say? Im not an englishman, heh heh
yuo knaw it can bee quit difcult too right ond a secon laguge

[lonnarin]

Niles09 - 8/19/2005  2:44 PM

what can I say? Im not an englishman, heh heh
yuo knaw it can bee quit difcult too right ond a secon laguge

Don't fret about that at all; you're doing great at it.  You're already doing better with english than most people from my graduating highschool class in Florida who were born and raised speaking the language. (and we were a college-prep school!)

[Filatus]

lonnarin - 8/20/2005  1:10 AM

You're already doing better with english than most people from my graduating highschool class in Florida who were born and raised speaking the language. (and we were a college-prep school!)

Heh, a bit disturbing that.

Anyway, I liked Niles09 suggestion about tales and rumours of the deeds of the epic character. I can see this getting shape by giving the patrons in the taverns optional dialogue. A GM just finished a quest and then creates a dialogue between to patrons that get's activated when the server resets.

Don't rightly know whether there is much scribting involved but it might be a fun idea. For example news about the bloodwells and this or that dungeon that within reason could have reached tavern's ears.

[Niles09]

thats a nice idea.. A thing wich can be hard for a newcomer is to understand the whole story, and a bard at the tavern, who would keep you updated would be great

[Sakura]

I know from experience that quests can last from 2 hours to 8 hours! (

[stormspirit]

On epic characters, I tend to agree with Rufus. Not all tales will reach a bards ear, some players make it so they wont reach a bards ear at all. I am sure both my character Eldárwen and Ar7's Rufus prefer our epics to remain private for various reasons. We both likely toook pains to make them so.

On some deeds sure, bards know about them...but if we open a place on the forums where people are free to tell all of these tales, what do teh bards tell people in game?  Its easy and in my opinion far more fun to find a good bard and spend an hour rping with them...and hearing the story in the bards words.  It may take a little longer to read it sure, but its worth it for the interaction that takes place.

Your right though on some things, im in Australia and at first there was little in mt timezone to go on, my character was at the ever lasting level 12.  It may have taken me longer to get places than others but with some patience and work she is now in the twenties.  Sure it takes time, and some Gm ran events that you might have to occasionally sacrifice the football for, but that comes down to how you prioritise your time in regards to leisure. If you prefer to spend it in a five hour quest then sure, if you would rather run out and play pnp thats your call, and not a bad one. You just cant expect that your character will run up levels like mad on Layo that way.  Your PnP character i bet will be higher level than mine though heh.

*points to Sakuras picture* CHI!

[Locust]

I’m one of those players that only has time to be online some 8 hours a week, for almost a year now. I tend to do play in blocks of several hours and not on fixed days. As a result I had to set some priotities and after trying everything a bid I ended up with.

- No (almost no) CNR, although I like the idea of the system, so I can try to do what I’m here for, the interaction with other characters. On the backside it means you don’t gain XP in huge amounts and you don’t ‘earn’ money cause there is nothing to trade.
- Playing a character that doesn’t steal from the dead/living (when there are others around ) doesn’t help either I guess.
- I try to sell some raw materials or CNR created once but never actually succeeded in doing it, there is always something else to do or the inability to find an interested party, again no money.
- No money is no (flashy) items that can make live a little easier, house or whatever which costs money and difficulty in getting a boat ride to the other continents (usually there is someone to pass a ticket or other solution), soulstone. I’m glad this is a virtual world otherwise I would be living in a cardboard box.

What keeps me here though is the ‘openness’ (or whatever it is called in English) of this world something I didn’t find in a few other worlds I’ve tried.

- The scheduled GM quests (which consume half of the 8 hours)
- The player quests or, try to, RP in Hlint (which consume the bulk of the rest of the 8 hours)
- The forum, player development threads and wild surge inn for instance during breaks at work.

The congregation of the faithful, the meeting of Toran and Rofirein followers are examples of this ‘openness’ that for 100% sure I wouldn’t have in other PW’s. This ‘openness’ makes it possible to feel a part of this world and if your lucky or try a little extra also able to play a part in another characters world.

But the thing I felt most frustrated about is that it is often difficult to keep pace with the rest of the world, the players that spend more time in Layo. Also the IG friends are already double your level and adventuring on the other side of the continent/server, so every time you have to start from scratch building up relations etc. Also being in GMT +1 zone from 20:30 – 23:30 on irregular days doesn’t help a lot either.

But if you are still having fun and others can sometimes profit from that I wouldn't bother to much about it, I know I don't.

[Niles09]

Well it seems like if this discussion is going to an end , so I thought this was a good point to rewrite my opinion(!) Its not because I want it all to start again, (at least not the start) but I've realized a few things I didnt know before, but still stands at the most I said...

About the crafting system. Dorganath was right about that it would be quite hard to go out and create a bow when you havent tried it before, but it would also be quite hard to pick a lock for the first time. In pnp there is a lot of craft skills, with ranks to spend, which represent the char's training in that profesion. In nwn there is only weapon and armor crafting wich is pretty useless when the other skills arent there. Thats why the mod in Layonara is great, but since a thief is good at lock picking since the first lvl, because of training, I think it would only be fair (and realistic) if a thief also started on lvl 2 in for example bowmaking, and a fighter could start on lvl 2 in armor and weapon making. I think that would only be realistic. Another thing is, that the raw materials are too unfair spread. If you go south of Haven you can easily obtain about 20 clumps of clay, but if you search for branches north of Hlint you usally find about 4 branches at one three and not even the option to find branches at the other 3 threes in that wood.
Besides that, I think the crafting system is great, even better than the pnp, since you need to find all the materials in Layo, while in pnp you pay some gold for the lesser materials.
About the xp. When I reached lvl 8 I was really happy, I checkeed my new skill points, my upgraded AC, because of the one extra dex point, and so forth. Then when I was done I saw my xp count, and realized that I needed to get as many xp tp reach lvl 9, as I've allready got in the whole game! But besides that I dont worry too much on the xp, what the heck, there is more important things than a super char
About NPC quest, well I already made my point on that pretty much, and it isnt gonna change anything that I write it again so I'll scip that (phew)
The GM quests, Ive also made my point on them, but some misunderstood that, so I'll write them again, Gm quests are GREAT! They are the strenght in Layonara, truly.
About the NPC amount I didnt think about the lag, so thats done. The graphics, is, as I said before, only to be improved if the GM's dont have anything better to do, but it would be nice with some improvement, and I still think a market would be great, since east Hlint isnt that much crowded anyway.
There was also that with the bard, I think a NPC bard in Layonara would be a good way to keep players updated, not about other players but about the bigger things, like the destroyed pools.
And about this site, it could still use "face lift" (dont know if that exists on englsih ) at least the pictures could be changed now and then. (but of course I've only been here for two months, I cant know if you just changed it before I came)

And finally, again Leanthar and the other GM's are doing a great great job, and I only write this, to tell what I think would be better, not to criticize Layonara for fun (why use half an hour to do that, when I could play Layo:)). Others are welcome to write their opinion about this, but dont haul it down on me, and dont say that a two month player cant have an opinion, this is my suggestion, and I dont say that all should follow that, but if you should answer this, keep in mind that not all people in hear, either thinks that your opinion is the right one. "and that is how it was"



And I think there was something about the game time, (so if you arent interested in my time schedule, scip this!) I've just started on my second year of serios education on a gymnasium, (I think thats about the senior high school, Im 17) and that means lot of homework, and If I want a good education, Ive better make it. So in a normal day without homework I will have about 5 -6 hours at home. After principles I dont wont to spoile my day with, shcool, eat, sleep and computer. I should also read something, and I also draw things (trying to become a cartoon maker , actually I've havent finished my drawing of my char, because now I can only draw the rest at night, and in the holiday, that was Layonaratime )so about 2-3 hours to computer such a day. If I have homework (wich is the most common now) I've have about 3-5 hours to do what I've already discribed. In the weekend I've have a lot of time, If I dont have a lot of bigger exercises from school, but I've got my principles so I dont want to play it all away:P Besides I've also play other games, but I will try to make friday night a Layo-night!

[cappyra]

Niles09,
  I have seen most of your suggestions in one forum or another in the past.  It is a good thing that you have taken the time to provide feedback.  I do beleive that feedback is taken and considered.  

  I have had interaction with your character a couple of times so I would like to comment on that:

The first time was a journey into the Haven Mines.  Quin and I took a group there in order to mine iron and gather some other resources in a hostile environment.  As players, Quin and I acted as guides for the group and took the time to make it an exciting quest.  We added our own bit of flavor to the NPC Quest in order to add depth to an otherwise go kill monster return head for reward quest.  So when you get with others, add in some quality role play an by the numbers NPC quest can be so much more.  I hope you remember that quest.

The second and third time I ran into your character you were asking me to help you get the oil from the Grey Peaks and another trying to get the head of the Lizard man chieftain in the High Moors.  I didn't feel like you were role playing it very well...  That you were just trying to get someone to do it so you could get the xp reward.  Now mind you that is just my impression.

By reading your thread you seem a little frustrated at the amount of time it takes to level.  If you are frustrated now... at level 8...  wait until you get in the teens and it takes months and months before gaining a level.  So perhaps if you are into character building you might want to play...  at least part time on another server that is oriented for quick character progression.  Get that out of your system and then log on here when you want to enjoy role playing and a rich deep world.

As far as crafting...  it is a difficult, oft times expensive and definately a time consuming endeavor.  So if you are limited in game play... and are not really into crafting...  I would say just forgo this aspect of the game until you have more time.  It is a slow process and a difficult one for a few reasons.  Also not all crafts are suited for all characters.  In your example fighters should start at level 2 in armor craft.  A fighter already starts with an advantage in armor crafting, his stats.  Typically a fighter will have greater strength than say other classes.  Guess one of the stats is considered when crafting?  You got it.  Strength.  The +s add a 5% chance when crafting so if your fighter has an 18 STR, he would start out with a 20% better chance of success than a character with a 10 strength.  

A quick response on your problem with hickory. . .  There are four hickory trees north of Hlint.  If you are only able to gather 3 - 4 branches per trip . . .  you are having some serious SERIOUS bad luck.  I can usually get 3+ per tree minimum.  Not sure what to say to your branch problem but to keep trying.  North of Hlint is also not the only place to gather Hickory... ask around, look around...  get a party together and go find it =)

As far as GM quests,  I wish I could do more but get on one about once a month and have fun.  There are plenty of quests being run but with the exception of the weekend I can't be on for the length of time required.  So when things line up...  I go for it.  Now what I do... is look at the calendar and sign up and then maybe schedule some time to play.

NPC quest...  just the right amount.  gets you started...  maybe gets you to explore the world a bit.  Encourages grouping and thus roleplay.  

As far as the website...  while maybe not as "pretty" as some I have seen...  it works great for me.  I also like the fact that I don't have to look at a bunch of banners.  The site is neat, organized and very functional.  Thats all I need.  I would rather the team spend time on Layonara and answering posts than making the site. . . pretty...

It seems like you are enjoying yourself here for the most part.  Relax and enjoy Layonara.  Do some roleplay.
If you like hack and slash and uber loot there are plenty of servers out there.  Go get it out of your system...  then come back here.  Trust me... you will.

[Lord of the Forest]

Niles09 - 8/19/2005  2:43 PM
 By reading your thread you seem a little frustrated at the amount of time it takes to level. If you are frustrated now... at level 8... wait until you get in the teens and it takes months and months before gaining a level. So perhaps if you are into character building you might want to play... at least part time on another server that is oriented for quick character progression. Get that out of your system and then log on here when you want to enjoy role playing and a rich deep world.

well, this is something I like on this PW, you will be not level 40 after a few months, it's not like WoW, some mates play it and they got her lv60 (the highest you can get) after only 3/4 month I guess. So you will have enough time for some great RP, meeting great guys, enjoy the awesome GM lead quests and have lot of time to see your character still getting better, sure, slow .... but this feels more realistic I guess. Developing and exploring your character is great, and you can also spend some time with some skills

[Leafgreen]

Try ALFA. If you see level two in less than a week, you are doing very well indeed.

[Niles09]

I remember the Haven mines, and it was great. The time with the grey peaks... well first time I got to the boss, it was with a party at my own lvl, wich means that we really had to work together, but as we killed the boss, it all got laggy so we couldnt obtain the oil. That first time, I really enjoied it, even as the lag prevented me from getting the oil, the great part of that quest, was to get there, I thought "I just try again," second time the boss hadnt respawned somehow, even as we have waited for a long time, (and not camped). third time wasnt very fun, since I went there with some high lvl guys, when we got into fight with the boss, I my screen freezed, for a moment I waited to see if it would be better, then I restarted my pc. I was killed while frozen and got a -8000xp. That maked me frustrated, because this was the third time I was at the boss, and he slept away, and the 8000xp was not very nice, not because I got less xp, (it could just hook up with a high lvl party and get them in an hour) but because they was the last three days work, cause the last three days I had been playing with people at my own lvl, to avoid that "let the high lvl take all the big monsters, and get xp from behind). About the xp wich is required to get a level, I like it. I've played on other servers, where people didnt give Rp a heck, and only fought in the most xp rewarding areas, I truly think its a good idea with the high xp needed, but I just think its a bit too high, but I rather have the high xp and concentrate on roleplay, than hack and slash to gain levels fast. I enjoy the roleplay on Layo,  not hack'n slash. About me being bad at RP'ing when we have met, I would like to play with you again, since that was not my level of RP'ingm, and I can do better. I was just getting a bit tired at the haven mines (03:00). I would ask you Derrick if you remember the wemic, I think I did better at that time.
So final, it is the roleplay I like about Layonara, and that its no all about hack'n slash, I dont know if you had spotted it, but I play pnp, and when I years back got the original nwn, I went pretty mad about the low history and puzzles, and the too much hack'n slash.
About the branches north of Hlint, I must be bugged, when I use a fire to obtain branches, I dont get the option when I go to a second three??
But I've be happy to play with you again.

[Dorganath]

Niles09 - 8/22/2005 1:08 PM  About the branches north of Hlint, I must be bugged, when I use a fire to obtain branches, I dont get the option when I go to a second three?? But I've be happy to play with you again.

[/SIZE]
  I think the fire can only be used once every so many minutes, regardless of which tree you are at...

[Niles09]

eh, you mean that if I light a fire at one three and pick up the branches, then I cant light a new fire under another three and pick up the branches, that is anyway what is happening.

[Dorganath]

http://www.layonaraonline.com/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=15263&posts=16

[Niles09]

ok, got it!