Layonara, NWN2 and Beyond...

[Leanthar]

"....By then, with the soul mother back, lots and lots of characters will be perm'd - especially the higher level ones, the probable reason for the Soul Mother's forced vacation in the first place (I speculate, of course)...."

That is incorrect on a few levels. She left for her reason and they were successful, something everybody will find out about eventually rest assured. I also pulled her out so that we could run military battles with Blood for a few months without a chance of getting DT's. I did this so that players could have fun, explore the world more, spread out etc. without that fear of DT's.  It was NOT done for 'higher levels'.

[SuperMunch]

It was NOT done for 'higher levels'.

So there really was a reason for the Soul Mother to be gone...  I thought it was a running gag that she was on vacation - sort of like when the server reboots at the Leilon Arms and folks blame an especially strong bottle of ale.  Goes to show how much I really paid attention.  

Anyway I just speculated because, in my mind, if a streak of REALLY bad luck happened to fall on us, it would be a bunch of newbies taking on Blood's armies.  *grins*

*bows and runs away in shame for poking the Master*

[LordCove]

Whatever the Layo Team decide will be fine by me. I know I will be camping outside the Computer shop on NWN2's release, and will try to be one of the first to explore the new world( Layonara, not the actual game). I dont even play NWN's now, just Layonara.
Character wipes are fine by me, reset everyone to zero. I know this sounds bad for people who have had characters for years, but remember all the fun you had building them up. Wouldnt you want to do it again?

[EdTheKet]

I thought it was a running gag that she was on vacation

And she wouldn't have been temporarily gone if the ECDQ that revolved around this had been a failure.

[Grid Blader]

With the soul mother gone, I went to place with Q I would not dare to go before.  Thank L.  Now a full charter wipe would be OK with me.  All the fun was building him that high up in levels.  Maybe some of the epics will become story lines, maybe some will become npc, who knows.  That is a little ways off, and all of us should be having fun with are charters now.  I know I am.  Can not wait to see the new world .

[Anodynes]

Dorganath - 4/25/2006  8:53 AM    Let's all keep in mind a couple of things:
  1) NWN2 isnt released yet, so what it will and will not do, other than what has been explicitly confirmed by Obsidian, is at this point speculative and subject to change.
  It's important also to clarify that whatever decision we make regarding character wipes will be directly related to how we design the setting, what kinds of systems we can have in place, and probably most importantly, what the starting (game) year will be.  Whatever your personal feelings about NWN2 or character wipes or whatever may be, understand that the GM and development teams have the best interests of the community in sight, and we will ultimately act in the way that makes the most sense for Layonara and the community as a whole. Once we actually have the game in-hand and we begin to work with it, we'll be able to know more, and I'm certain we'll keep the community up-to-date, as appropriate.  

 FYI. First, NWN2 will be based on the DnD 3.5 ruleset which is different from the DnD 3.0 ruleset that NWN1 is based on.  There are probably a number of features, etc that won't translate well between 3.0 and 3.5.  Second, I heard specifically that your character created in NWN1 probably won't transfer over to NWN2 because the game mechanics are different but also because of graphics changes between NWN1 and NWN2.  The good news is that any of the custom scripting will more than likely be able to be exported from NWN1 to NWN2 which should expidite the module building side of custom content.

[Anodynes]

Another point of interest... you may be playing NWN1 on Layonara alot longer than you think.  When NWN2 comes out, Obsidian has already stated that they won't be supplying the DM client on the CDs.  They state is should be available as a download but as we all know if everyone is downloading it then you may not have it in hand right away.  Further, most thinks that are brand new and a download mean last minute debugging, minimial quality assurance, etc.  I am not holding my breath that the DM client will be worth much before a few patches on it. Call me "cynical".

Since Layonara relies on the DM client so heavily, I don't see a transistion from NWN1 to NWN2 for some time... even if NWN2 does manage to make it out on time.  But then I am just a player here.

[orth]

Anodynes - 6/5/2006  3:31 PM

FYI. First, NWN2 will be based on the DnD 3.5 ruleset which is different from the DnD 3.0 ruleset that NWN1 is based on.  There are probably a number of features, etc that won't translate well between 3.0 and 3.5.  Second, I heard specifically that your character created in NWN1 probably won't transfer over to NWN2 because the game mechanics are different but also because of graphics changes between NWN1 and NWN2.

The good news is that any of the custom scripting will more than likely be able to be exported from NWN1 to NWN2 which should expidite the module building side of custom content.

FYI, Dorganath and many of the development team are very aware of every little detail with NWN2.

Secondly, your information on the DM Client is inaccurate.  The DM client will be available as a seperate download.  By the time we're ready with an initial module release, the client will be right there with us.

Edit: Oh you edited your statement about the client.  As the first post in this thread states, Layonara will probably not be ready until January/07.

[orth]

Also, just because the character files will not be transferable does not mean we can't write a conversion program of some sorts.  Once again, until we know exactly the changes, it's hard to make this kind of decision though.

[Dorganath]

The ruleset change is known, and your comment on what may or may not translate well doesn't really say much, as there are aspects of 3.0 that have not translated well into NWN.  This is more due to the difficulties of translating a free-form tabletop game into an electronic format.  Such things are to be expected, but as I more or less said before until the game is released to manufacturing the features and how they are implemented may change at any time.  Speculation on what is not explicitly known is fruitless.
  I would add also that many of NWN1's short-comings (and it had a lot) have been either fixed in code or worked around by the extremely creative and capable NWN community....as well as by some really talented people on our own teams here for Layonara.
  That characters will not be transferable has also been known for a long time.  What is meant by a character wipe is a decision on whether or not existing characters will be allowed to be recreated in the next version of Layonara, or if people must create all new characters.  Clearly the process is much different, but experience, status, and whatever else a character may have accumulated could in theory be returned to the new character.  Whether or not this happens has yet to be decided, but it is the topic for another thread.
  On the DM client, that it will not ship in the box is also known. However, it is the stated intention of Obsidian to provide the DM client as a free download at the same time as the final product ships.  There are those who would say that this is a negative...that it means Obsidian clearly doesn't care about the MP community or the PW community, and that we'll be locked into a boring SP game for months, years, whatever.  What it says to me is that they need the extra 4-6 weeks to make sure the DM client is nice, polished and useful.  It says to me that they care enough about it to not just throw some half-developed software into the box just to fill out a bullet list.  Rather, they'll take the extra time after release-to-manufacturing (RTM) and spend that time finishing and improving the DM client so that it is up the the same standard level as the rest of the game when it ships. I'll also point out that the GUI is scriptable to the point where many GM-type functions can be added into the player interface.  Granted it's not the same, but it can be useful, though I don't anticipate we'll need to go to such extremes.
  Another thing to note is that, yes, we will likely be playing on NWN1 until January 2007.  While scripting and dialog will transfer over with minimal headaches, really the next version of Layonara will differ from the current version in more than simply visuals.  It will look different, it will act different, it will be different in a lot of important ways, but it will still be Layonara at it's core. Still, it will be a huge job for us and it will take time, plenty of time for improvements and enhancements to come from Obsidian and the NWN2 community...and plenty of time for Obsidian to finish the DM client.
  Lastly, I just want to mention that the developers for Layonara, of which I am one, are watching the news on NWN2 very closely and we are already planning on how to deal the positives and potential negatives that the NWN2 platform will bring.  If we do not think it will be a viable platform for Layonara, we will not go to it...simple as that.
  At the risk of repeating myself, speculating further based on the very light information we all have on the game at this point is largely fruitless.

[Dorganath]

And thanks to orth for not being quite so wordy as I am!  

[Schmack]

Will sub-races like half-giant, half-ogre, goblin etc. be used in Layonara's NWN2 version, just wondering as they aren't listed as one of the playable races/subraces for NWN2, but then again, they weren't for NWN1 either, or won't you know whether you'll be able to have them as races until after it's released?

[Deacon]

I would assume that they are going to be available, but I can't imagine how long it will be until they are released.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

If the subraces aren't released with the first patch, the CEP will be right on it, and will probably end up releasing the beta CEP for NWN2 within a week or so of the release.

[speculation] If all else fails, creating a custom skin is easy, when compared to, say, a crafting system. [/speculation]

[Talan Va'lash]

if skin = appearance, then its not easy really and requires some specialized software and know how

if skin = the stat adjustments its pretty easy.

However I think the NWN2 subrace system is going to be a LOT more advanced and integrated into the game engine itself.  At one point they were saying all DnD playable races will be in.  No idea of the development of that piece of info... but it sounds a little unrealistic or like a rumor to me.  but all rumors start with a grain of truth... generally... most of the time...

[Dorganath]

Schmack - 6/6/2006  12:51 AM  Will sub-races like half-giant, half-ogre, goblin etc. be used in Layonara's NWN2 version, just wondering as they aren't listed as one of the playable races/subraces for NWN2, but then again, they weren't for NWN1 either, or won't you know whether you'll be able to have them as races until after it's released?

 Again, this is one of those things we may not know or won't even be able to speculate on until we have the game in-hand or Obsidian releases more details on the matter. It does seem that NWN2 will have actual sub-race support that is something more than just a "Subrace" field at character creation. The extent of that support and whether or not it can be customized to include half-giants, goblins and others remains to be seen.
  Of course the hope is that we add a few lines into some 2da files and we have new subraces, though as things go, it will probably be a wee bit more complicated than that.