I need to get this off my cheast.

[Frelinder]

To Laldiien

Sounds like this PC was on west but tried to log on on central.. If a PC doesn't wan't help its not much one can do.. atleast you tried.

[minerva]

Just a point on tells.  Some players that have only played the Single player version of this game have no idea what a tell is or how to send them.
Same goes for whispers and party chat.  

I was one of those players until a nice vetran took me under his wing and pointed out all these strange new ideas and gizmos to me.

Took me almost 2 years to learn to type and walk ... I still don't do it well

Please make allowances for you fellow players.  Give them the benefit of the doubt.  We are after all here to have fun.

One of my favorite Layo experiences was as a level 5 fighter having to organize a rescue party in Hlint because the server crashed and I was the only one who had rested topside.  The rest were stuck below and no way of getting out short of the bindstone express.  It was a great adventure.  I was not a "newbie" but I was a new character in need of help.

[Faldred]

I'd like to think that except for an immediate (or near-immediate) need to log off, that I've never denied help to a new player or character -- as an aside, I generally don't know if a new character is from a new player or an existing player unless they exhibit metagaming knowledge.

That said, I generally don't volunteer help too often for two reasons:

1) I don't like using "tell" if I can avoid it; I see "tell" as strictly OOC, and using it breaks immersion.  I'll use it when I have to, especially if I need to clarify the difference between me as a player vs. my character, but I don't like it.

2) Offering advice, etc., is easy enough, though doing so effectively in character can be tough sometimes, especially depending on the character; I do have concerns over issues of "dragging" low level characters along, or at least the appearance thereof.  A 9th level character helping a 2nd level character out with the "Ratman" quest can make sense from an RP perspective, but in my mind it walks the line of breaking server rules about level disparities in parties.

On the second point especially, I know we've all (or at least most of us) gotten help from higher-level characters when we were starting out, but at what point does it turn into "dragging" vs. "helping" a new PC?

[Leanthar]

@Jecklar, nice to hear that you had a good experience--very cool. Hopefully that sort of thing is repeated 100x times over (or a 1000 if we get that many more players).

[Honora]

One more thing to consider: A lot of us are PnP gamers.  I know I am, and I know the original concept for Layo came out of that and was populated initially by folks with experience in that gaming style.  But a lot of us are also MMO players; people who come here for the atmosphere but whose idea of a GM is someone you petition via an impersonal interface for help and then wait for days/weeks for a response.   People who have played WoW or EQ or (insert game here) and really have never been exposed to roleplay.  I'm seeing a lot of that.

I think Ed and Minerva's idea to host RP and Layo specific Q&A is fantastic; this is just what we need.  A bit of the OOC history of Layo would not hurt, to let folks know that this MMO (and it is, despite the Bioware limitations) comes from a whole different base idea than something like Worlds of Warcraft.

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

I usually help out characters I notice are lower in level then my PCs (who are all lvl 8 so I cant tell who really is new).  If I end up RPing with them I send a tell asking if they are new to layo, and usually help those who are (unless its just an old players new PC, in which case I help them if it falls into the RP).  I don't, however, pull lvl 1-5 pcs off the street and start with, "You look new around here, need any help?"  I usually wait to see if they do infact need help, and then jump right in.

Actually, o the note of "RP 101" Sessions, I'd be happy to host a "Ranger RP 101."  There was supposed to be one this past weekend but it got cancelled, but I'd gladly host one, I just don't know how to go about arranging that.

[Nyralotep]

You can even help without direct intervention.  One time before I noticed a new character logged in as a cleric on the server status but with nothing in the diety field.  I did a tell to him about the cleric missing the diety then I contacted the DM who was online about the problem who was able to take care of it for the person.

During the exchange he had said he didn't want to make the DM's mad and I took the time to explain how nice the staff here is and they are in fact there to help us.

Anyway when I have the chance and notice a new player I'm always willing and do help out when possible because we are all here to make this a fun place to be at.

[LynnJuniper]

I also agree with the whole "Where we're coming from thing". You get some people that are PnPers or even veterans, you get those from other PW (Prestige Worlds), and then you get those who'se only NWN experiance is with the single player. In addition to that you have as Honora said MMO-ers who come from places like EQ or Ragnarok and think this is going to be the same, but are generally willing to learn. On the other side of that spectrum however, you have a few (and Im an example of this as well as a few others I know) Who come soley from chat based rp and , while knowing how to write their emotions and dialog, don't know as much about the 'technical' side of things, like how to get their character to talk at a whisper , or how to customize clothing (here's to 2 months of wandering around in generic Wizard robes!).

The point of this blabbering is , as stated above in a variety of ways, is to be accepting and helpful no matter what the medium the player is coming from. So far I think this is being done verily well.

[lonnarin]

Niles09 - 2/20/2007  6:02 AM

I will avoid naming anyone, but please, if you dont want to help then at least don't send tells to those actually helping stating, that they're helping a low level character to power level... a 1 level character can't power level.

Agreed.  Not too long ago a GM berated Farros for taking a lvl 1 character about 5-minutes new to the game into the Hlint Sewers and made me abandon them there mid-hunt with all of 3hp.  I understand the concept of trying to keep levels close to eachother in a party, but seriously, give the poor guy a break.  Considering I was taking him through a series of CR 1/2 or 1/3 monsters that newcomers are expected to face starting out, I saw the admonishment that I was "powerleveling" the fellow in poor form.  When people are just starting out, they look to us to serve the example and help train them to at least learn how to swing a sword without cutting themselves.  The reason given to me by the GM is that the player was still under 4th lvl and therefore didn't NEED any help since they didn't incur any DTs from the death system... what a horrible OOC explaination.  People need help because they're new and need help getting their bearings, and heroes help people in need, it's what heroes do.  Now because of that instance, I don't see the guy around anymore and he probably quit, thinking I'm an elitist for telling him I'd help him then randomly making up an excuse that I had to go because some GM was spamming my tell channel.

So please, keep in mind that "powerleveling" is when you take somebody to a place that they really have no business being in for xp, like taking a trio of lvl 1-4s to Haven instead of places like the goblin caves or sielwood that they could handle with a little more training in the user-interface.  "Powerlevelling" is not helping somebody gather beginning CNR to help them get a job, doing the Hlint quests to pass the time with and get to know them or helping them explore the surrounding areas of starting area Mistone.

Many times I help out people pretty young too, I think it was Sniverous who had a 6-7 year old son playing that I got to show off the server to with Earl. Another guy I know has mild epilepsy and sometimes misclicks when charging, and all sorts of mechanical problems abound on the user-end with our Windows-based CPUs. There's all sorts of things that could be happening that you don't know about while you're making fun of somebody.  So don't be overly critical to people who are still getting their NWN skills in order and haven't learned the tactics of survival yet.  It's not like yelling at them is going to do anything else than discourage them.

[Mooneyes]

Great Observation  lonnarin.  I am fairly new myself and would have totaly given up had not a few other players helped me out.  While it's true that we can't get Dt's until fourth level how long does it take to get there?  It took me maybe a day and half. But a day and a half still didn't make me feel on top of the world and ready to conquer the lands. I am only just now at level seven starting to make any sense at getting anything done.  
Thank you to all those out there that have made Peanut and Clover feel welcome.  An thanks to Oxmallard for being patient with Peanut...(and me). I'm still working on the stance! *grins*

[Leanthar]

@lonnarin, I am sorry that happened. It shouldn't have. I have specifically put in the "no penalty" for death for the first few levels for a very specific reason...to let players learn the world and the system and make mistakes without being penalized.
  New players (I said players--not new characters) should be able to get support from the community players for the first 3-4 levels without any issue of fear from the GM Team (or rapid level fears/powerleveling fears)... but that is new players to the community...not new characters of established players (big difference)...
  "......So please, keep in mind that "powerleveling" is when you take somebody to a place that they really have no business being in for xp, like taking a trio of lvl 1-4s to Haven instead of places like the goblin caves or sielwood that they could handle with a little more training in the user-interface. "Powerlevelling" is not helping somebody gather beginning CNR to help them get a job, doing the Hlint quests to pass the time with and get to know them or helping them explore the surrounding areas of starting area Mistone. ....."
  That is absolutely correct. The character was in the proper place for his level and since it was a low level character (new to the world) it would not be power leveling.... However, one has to be smart about it because in a round-a-bout way it can be seen that way in that 'the higher level will protect/heal the other character'....but that is something we do not want pay a whole lot of attention towhen somebody is helping new players (not new characters of established players--that is the difference).

[jrizz]

I have done this a number of times with new players. The way I handle it is to RP that I dont have my weapons with me but that I will still guide them and help in anyway that I can (healing, buffing, tactics, where to buy supplies and such). It can be fun and if you use tells you can really help a new player understand Layo a lot in a short time.

[ycleption]

When I started here, less than two months ago, a number of people gave me a great deal of  help, both IC and OOC, and many of them still do. I'm a fairly experienced role-player, but completely new to on-line role-playing, and still have some difficulty with it. Usually, the people who have helped me told me to help others in order to repay them, which provides me a good IG reason to help people (when often my character would rather focus on her own training), and I'll often try to initiate a conversation with new characters, just so that they feel they know a few people. However, I have trouble with some new players, who clearly have not read about this world and this server, who seem to have a sense of entitlement that other players will help them, and thus don't role-play asking for help. Obviously, everyone has different experience with role-playing, so I usually help these people anyway, but in some ways I feel like I'm doing them a disservice by not forcing them to role-play asking/persuading a bit more before consenting to help them.

[Drizzlin]

I will help anyone(with in the rules) OOC, period. This is coming from a player who plays an evil drow. There are two sides to that coin of course, I can only help those who ask, or those I run into who look lost. Either way, you get back what you put in. A little time invested helping new players will only strengthen the player base of Layonara in the future, and it might even make you a friend IC and OOC.

[Laldiien]

Frelinder - 2/20/2007 11:01 AM To Laldiien Sounds like this PC was on west but tried to log on on central.. If a PC doesn't wan't help its not much one can do.. atleast you tried.

 Sorry, I wasn't clear in my previous post. I was on central he stayed logged in and did not acknowledge the tells after I had explained how they work.
  On West, he would log in, stay on 3 minutes, log out, Log right back on, rinse & repeat.

[Tanman]

If its in Tells I agree whole heartedly. Also if I am playing one of characters that is snarky by nature and I realise that they are new or not used to the RP I always change my tone to be more accomodating.

lunchboxkilla - 2/20/2007  8:58 PM

No i mean helping by sending them tells...There is more than one way to help a person than showing them about west server or RPing it out.....

[Lilswanwillow]

well, here...

for all lv 7 and under, RP, and everything
http://www.layonaraonline.com/forums/calendar/event-view.asp?eventid=2739&year=2007&month=2

made a calender event... maybe we can make it into a meet n greet?

[AeonBlues]

I strongly feel that the original post here was a bad experience compared to the norm of the server.  First I would like to give a compliment to Farros.  More then any other character, I have seen him helping and guiding new character.

When I first started here about 10 months ago, I had many bad experience that I do not see so much now.  I never played on any on line RP worlds before.  I played RTS and PnP roll playing, but everything was very new to me.   My first experience was having a more experienced player power level my character, and teach me to abuse the server rules with out getting caught.  Like "Don't cheat in Hint, cause the DMs will see you." and stuff like that.  Then, out of ignorance I would say something like, so and so "Is lost on Central."  I did not know the name Dregar at that time.  Then another player would send a tell to a DM and I would get an angry DM sending tells that felt hostile to me.  These beginning experiances led me to think that the DMs were out to get me and kill my character.

So, yah, my opinion is that for the most part I am seeing new players given a lot of support, and in ways that are much more patient and mature then what I experienced.

Aeon Blues

[Drizzlin]

AeonBlues - 2/20/2007  5:15 PM

I strongly feel that the original post here was a bad experience compared to the norm of the server.  First I would like to give a compliment to Farros.  More then any other character, I have seen him helping and guiding new character.

When I first started here about 10 months ago, I had many bad experience that I do not see so much now.  I never played on any on line RP worlds before.  I played RTS and PnP roll playing, but everything was very new to me.   My first experience was having a more experienced player power level my character, and teach me to abuse the server rules with out getting caught.  Like "Don't cheat in Hint, cause the DMs will see you." and stuff like that.  Then, out of ignorance I would say something like, so and so "Is lost on Central."  I did not know the name Dregar at that time.  Then another player would send a tell to a DM and I would get an angry DM sending tells that felt hostile to me.  These beginning experiances led me to think that the DMs were out to get me and kill my character.

So, yah, my opinion is that for the most part I am seeing new players given a lot of support, and in ways that are much more patient and mature then what I experienced.

Aeon Blues

Right around my 10th day on the server, brand new and still wet behind the ears, a DM smitted me in Hlint for using the temple there =P. I loved it. Some would have thought it a bad experience, but I knew I was going to love this server after that...=-)