The GRATE WALL OF LAYONARA

[Niles09]

Ive tried a hack'n slash server before I came here, so I know the xp functions better here. I also RP at the run, adventuring and such, but some of us dont have enough time for things like quests. Besides, how fast do you lvl?

[Tanman]

To date on one of my character I levelled from 10-11 in one month or more. I was fortunate enough to go on one quest. I find it really difficult to attend quests, Australia is 2-3 hours behind so when its 8:30 AEST quest starting time, I am preparing for sleep, during week days.

I have to say that a lot of my 10th level character at the time (now 11th level) never ever went out on his own. He always went in a group. And for the most part he did a lot of RP. Which is what I want to develop even more. I got XP from doing that.

All I can say is run the areas (RP of course, keeping in spirit of the server) in groups. Groups and RP make a ton of difference.

[ZeroVega]

Well, it took me about fourteen months or so to get Tath (my main character from waaaaay back when, heh) up to level twenty. Obviously the first three to five went pretty fast. After that I had good months were I'd level once or twice and bad months when I'd hardly make any headway at all. I think from level 19 to 20 took two or three months, which was excruciating.

I've known people who would make level 15 and even 20 in six months, and it amazed me (and slightly annoyed me) when they passed me even though I'd been around for so much longer. Then there were people who I passed and who I'm sure got a little disgrundled about it. The fact is you can't dwell on how fast other people are leveling (it's still hard for me so I'm not acting all "holier than thou" or anything). Just do what you can with what time you have. Keep RP in what you do, even if it's going on a monster slaughtering fest. That's part of the game as well.

[Niles09]

Ive played on zan in... 17 months now, and Im lvl 12. (nearly 13 though)

[Tanman]

But thats the beauty of the whole thing now. Even though you are level 12 and you have developed a story around them through RP, there are so many opportunities that are now open to you. You can partake in CDQs and draw upon certain events IG that just would not have been possible fopr others that level very quickly but do not document anything at all.

Just because your character is level 12 doesn;t make him or her a lesser character to someone that is 18 or 19.

[Niles09]

Tanman - 11/5/2006  10:24 AM

But thats the beauty of the whole thing now. Even though you are level 12 and you have developed a story around them through RP, there are so many opportunities that are now open to you. You can partake in CDQs and draw upon certain events IG that just would not have been possible fopr others that level very quickly but do not document anything at all.

Just because your character is level 12 doesn;t make him or her a lesser character to someone that is 18 or 19.

Thats just not the way things work. Your character needs to reach lvl 21 before doing any epic development in his/her story, and quests... Last time a quest actually lay in a time I was able and wasnt locked, lvl limited or I just rolled a bad dice was somewhere around summer.

[Tanman]

That is true for WLCDQs. It takes a while, but RP and building the CDT will certainly go a long way to help you get that when the time comes.

A CDQ does not have any level restrictions at all to which i referred to originally. The minimum level you have to be to get a CDQ is 10.

As for quests,  they are becoming a lot more varied and open. I too have a problem with getting on quests. But with the number of DMs increasing, there is more time slots available now.

I just wish there was a DM in NZ as well.

Niles09 - 11/6/2006  9:31 AM

Thats just not the way things work. Your character needs to reach lvl 21 before doing any epic development in his/her story, and quests... Last time a quest actually lay in a time I was able and wasnt locked, lvl limited or I just rolled a bad dice was somewhere around summer.

[Strykr]

I have to say just one thing here.  If you wish to level up faster, travel in larger groups and explore tougher terrain.  Perhaps the mountains near Valensk would be a good idea.  They would be a fair challenge, but doable with a group that works well together, or at least a large enought group to overcome not working together.  But if you are off killing ogre brutes and beserkers I suspect the exp is going to slow down to a trickle rather quickly.  I now have a fighter level 6 or so and he is approaching this wall.  (In fact he has hit a wall as he doesn't socialize enough to find people to group with that often)  But take the grouping expiditions seriously.  They are a great way to level.  Take it from someone who very rarely gets to go on GM quests as well.  (Perhaps 3-5 in the 2 years or so I have been around on and off)

Eredel

[Niles09]

Strykr - 11/5/2006  10:21 PM

I have to say just one thing here.  If you wish to level up faster, travel in larger groups and explore tougher terrain.  Perhaps the mountains near Valensk would be a good idea.  They would be a fair challenge, but doable with a group that works well together, or at least a large enought group to overcome not working together.  But if you are off killing ogre brutes and beserkers I suspect the exp is going to slow down to a trickle rather quickly.  I now have a fighter level 6 or so and he is approaching this wall.  (In fact he has hit a wall as he doesn't socialize enough to find people to group with that often)  But take the grouping expiditions seriously.  They are a great way to level.  Take it from someone who very rarely gets to go on GM quests as well.  (Perhaps 3-5 in the 2 years or so I have been around on and off)

Eredel

Yeah I know. I practically never go on my own since Zan cant really fight alone.

[Niles09]

Which brings me to one of the extremly annoying things about being such a low level compared to the time spend here. I know you just tried to give a good advice and help, so dont take this personally.
What really can annoy me is, when a 14 (or about that lvl) lvl char who have played here for just a few months starts "talking down on me/Zan," like Im just an unexperienced player who knows nothing about combat, geographies of the world or the history even though I would end up guiding the char through areas he never have visited, warning him/her against specieal monsters around and how to beat them, and maybe telling a tale from a quest happening a year ago.
Secondly, I know there is probaly alot of players that will totally disagree in this, but people simply tend to listen more to high lvl chars than low lvl's ecpicially in quests.
Fx, when we defended Pranzis Zan was by Pyyran put in charge of defending the merchants distrect (though I think it was only Pyyran that saw it that way) anyway, we got overrun in that distrect - totally. Being a SD Zan survived and got back to the western front, but even though she explained that the enemy has a complete opening at the nothern front and the could swarm in there (merchants distrect) noone reacted, while people happely helped any other higher level commander that asked for support.
Ofcourse this doesnt count for everyone, but... sometimes it just happens and then its not fun.

[ZeroVega]

I totally agree with you Niles. It isn't right for people to treat others with more or less respect based on level. Levels don't exist anyway. They're just a gague for us to tell how experianced they are in a certain sense. It's like Book Smarts vs. Street Smarts. If you're a level 20, but you power leveled there and you are totally in the dark on 70% of Layonara areas, history, and other characters, you've got the Layo Version of "Book Smarts." You're a high level, so people will fawn to you as if you know what you're doing. The people who do know what they're doing are the ones who get active, don't metagame, and say, "Forget the levels, I've been around the block a few times and I know what I'm talking about."

As for Pranzis, that was sorta sticky, but I don't want to draw the thread off topic. In short, I think Layonara has done all it can to even out the playing field for people who have 20 hours a week to play and the people who have 2... as much as can be done anyway. From here, it's up to players to make the concious decision to treat other players with respect. OOC, one should never be talked down to (unless they're total idiots, in which case ever other word will be #*&$!) and IC, one should only be talked down to if people KNOW them well enough or it's in their character.

(Just an example, Tath talks down to people allllll the time. If someone knows what he/she's talking about, he'll listen. But redheads who call him Duckie will get major sarcasm and cynicism.)

ZV-

[Hellblazer]

Niles09 - 11/6/2006  9:05 AM  Which brings me to one of the extremly annoying things about being such a low level compared to the time spend here. I know you just tried to give a good advice and help, so dont take this personally.  What really can annoy me is, when a 14 (or about that lvl) lvl char who have played here for just a few months starts "talking down on me/Zan,"

 Dont forge that part of this may, cant not be sure since i wasnt tere, be part RP. Your character is, after all new to this world.

[Niles09]

Zan has been "active" for what would be about 18-20 years. She is certainly not new to this world.

[Weeblie]

Niles09 - 11/6/2006  3:05 PM

Secondly, I know there is probaly alot of players that will totally disagree in this, but people simply tend to listen more to high lvl chars than low lvl's ecpicially in quests.

As with everything, it depends on the quest and on the party. Generally, on long time quests, it's how long you have participated that matters, not your level. For single session quests, it's generally one of the highest level persons.

It's something existing in all RPG-games, and not only here on Layonara. Strictly game mechanically, a higher level person is simply more powerful than a lower level one. If a lower level person wants to do something but the higher level one doesn't agree. Well, the lower level one won't be able to do it. If a higher level person wants to do something, he doesn't really need the approval from the lower level character. That's in my opinion the main reason of why the "party crowd" follow the high level people.

Now... This is actually not completely true. "Friends" has usually higher priority than "higher level". So, if your character is pretty much known by everyone as a trustable character, he or she will most probably have much more to say, even if he or she happens to be a very low level character. If the low level person just has one or two other character backing he or she up (the other characters doesn't necessary have to be high level characters), it won't matter if there are any lonely high level character there or not. Of course... If there happens to be a WL present, that one usually has more to say. It would be meta-gaming if that wasn't true (who would you listen to: "Everyday Joe" or "The High Priest of Toran"?).

With all this said, what's my own experience of this?

I would say it's a 50/50 thing on single session quests. Sometimes, I see low level characters leading the way. Othertimes, I see high level characters. Sometimes, even on quest series, I see low level/"new" characters do that!

The "X is higher level than Y, so therefore, I will listen more to X than Y"-problem do exist but I can't really agree on if whether it's a very big issue or not. I found it more common [not directed to anyone in particular] that the low level person in question doesn't really take the opportunity to do that, and not that he or she is not "allowed" to do that.

[LynnJuniper]

ZeroVega - 11/6/2006  9:22 AM

(Just an example, Tath talks down to people allllll the time. If someone knows what he/she's talking about, he'll listen. But redheads who call him Duckie will get major sarcasm and cynicism.)

ZV-

I love you Tathy...


Also, I agree with what Niles is saying as well, as people generally -trust- the word of a high level character over the word of a lower level character. The reasoning behind this is generally 'if a character got to this level then he must have done something right , must know what he's doing, and must be an influencial person in the world of Layonara'

This is not always true, which goes back to the entire Book Smarts vs Street smarts argument ZeroVega had that I totally agree with. I've seen personal examples of the level thing with my own character Rhynn: Basically how people are more willing to listen to her now (Even when I purposely make some of the things she says completley wrong and outlandish) compared to the same line of conversation she would give at level 11 or 12.

At the same time there are those people who would totally ignore level: Example: Daralith. He's about a good 6 levels beneath Rhynn and STILL talks to Rhynn as if she's an idiot scum human, which to him, she is.

So Basically what it comes down to: You godda find the right people, the right parties, the right everything for your personal method of play.

[Strykr]

In response to lower level characters not being given their due respect...I have experienced this first hand and I try to give out respect to all I travel with.  Usually in the groups I travel with I am either the leader (when I travel with my normal group of friends) not necessarily because I am of higher level than they are, but because I  know the terrain very well.  I usually know exactly what our group can handle and how quickly we can handle them.  Often times when I am traveling with lower level companions, I gauge a fight with what I can handle 1 vs xx.  I will not take lower level players into a fight that puts me in over my head because if something goes wrong, I can't protect them and we may all die as a result.  However, I also greatly enjoy traveling with lower level groups more as an observer and support caster.  I will let them do most of the work for two reasons:  1) I don't wish to powerlevel up a bunch of level 9-10 players on Central where I travel mostly where I kill everything and they just gather things.  I don't feel it is good for the game really.  2) I don't wish to take away their experience of the fights that they will encounter.  It is good for them to see just where they truly stand versus the evils of the land.  But if they do get into trouble, I will unleash all I can as quickly as possible to save lives.  In other cases, when I travel with higher level characters, (Sometimes with Ket for example), I am merely a follower again for 2 reasons.  1) He kills things extremely fast, especially when I have enhanced him magically. 2) He often takes me places too dangerous for me alone or in some cases to places I have never been (East for example), thus I have no choice but to follow, carefully.

So I guess it comes down to knowledge and power.  But often level is wrongfully perceived as one or both.  But experience with a character in either case will tell all.  I have been with "leaders" that are no leaders at all, but have higher levels.  And in some cases I have been in groups that move so painfully slow it literally drives me away.  I was once told to slow down as a younger mage in an area where I was able to solo in because the leader in a group of 4-5 well versed travelers wished to single out the enemy "pulling" 1 at a time.  In some cases it may be wise, but in others, it shows lack of trust or overcautiousness.  I'm not saying that being overcautious is a bad thing, but it is not for everyone.

[Tanman]

I would suggest that you should find yourself to play within a group. Start up some new first characters together and get approved. Then play together with that group when all of you are on at the same time. The other times, alternate with the other characters that you have.

This is what I am doing now. I have a group that I play with. and when we are all together, we all play within a group. Using particular characters. I was able to get through level 8 in under two weeks or so,  through a group (i am slowing down now). We will have an outing to the Dragon Isles or Krashin. We RP combat scenes like crazy and I find that just as entertaining than just grinding XP.



If I may make a suggestion I have played with Millie and Spug. IMHO, develop your friends. Talk to them IC. Just like in real life, if you develop your relationships with people then they are going to welcome you.

I see your characters and they just ask if they want to join a group....and then take off if nothing eventuates. Hang around and make friends rather than look for adventure only. Once you have formed some friends, or your character has formed friends, going on adventures is a lot easier.

There are tons of places, that can help you over the bump on Mistone.
But for those places, you 'definitely' need a good well rounded group.

Just my two cents worth.

I hope that helps

NEXUS7 - 11/7/2006  5:04 AM

wow I go away fro 3 weeks and there are some grate posts here, Thanks to ZV I do see where the team is comming from, For me I think the way to go is just do what I have been doing make fun PCs that work at Levels 1 to 7 and dump them at 7, I have more fun RPing a PC up a few low levels that farming EX to get over the level 9 to 10 hump and lats face it I dont wont to wast my small amount of Layo time doing that. So Ill stick at 1 to 9.
To be honest once your out of Hlint there are fower and fewer players to hock up with, on a good night you will have 50 odd on west and 20 on Central and maybe 4 to 8 on east.

DM games are out for me I have tryed but one phone call and I have to drop out.
CDQs are the same and LORE CDQ is just more time I dont have.

Layo is for players who have hours of RL they can put into a PC.

I think i have been here for about as 18 mouths,
Yes I have had 8 PCS 3 main ones
Rosa, Mille and Spugly.
Mille's locked in CDQ hell.
Spuglys looking at the 9tht to 10 level hill
So I play Rose which is fun when she hits the hill Ill drop her and make a new PC.

I ahve done all the level 1 to 7 quests 8 times each with RP and each was fun.

What Im getting at is, when I play PnP 4 hours of good RP = some thing for your PC, an object, level, life event.
4 hours of layo can be two trips for iron, a chat to ozy, Helping some down the red mines and a lot of walking about.
at then end your 0.01% closer to level 10 and 400 coin richer which you pay out in healing kits an the like.

Playing a lower level PC means 4 hours = a level or 1/3 1/4 of the way to a level.
My weeks gameing is not a pointless act, that RP meant some thing to the life of my PC.

I love RP thats what I do, ask any one about my PCs, I dont patrenice new-bes I help, I dont stunt RP I join in, and I start RP if every one is standing arould looking bord in Hlint I will kick some thing off. Becosue I love RP, read my logs.

Now I know the wall is there and is there for a good reson i feel a lot better, I will stop worry that it was some how my playing that was lacking.

As a low level player who only adds a small amount to the Layo Pie I still think you guys do a grate job, GM team and the big players who put in the hours.

Humm
My be I should start a low level group who only play levels 1 to 9.
what you think.

[Tanman]

I guess if you want to stay within levels 1-9, its fine.

Next time, I seee your characters, I'll look you up .

[HooD!uM]

well..the best way to get pass this wall is stick to one character for awhile, that gets you further plus your character will get well known to others and they would gladly take him/her along for a trip somewhere. xp isnt everything but i understand that it ticks you off when you cant get somewhere cause you get absolutely pummeled. ive been there, done that, but in the end you will finally get there. so advice from a friend...stick to a character ot two and keep meeting people for a good adventure.