Author Topic: Ummm Army? (Read 246 times)

ParryWins · « **on:** June 03, 2006, 04:03:14 pm »

Say, I've been thinking about signing up with the army for some time now, and I have (almost) all the paperwork and requirements I need to do it. Keep in mind I'm talking about the Canadian Army, as I live in Canadia.

I was wondering, does anyone know anything about 'army life', either from personal experience or through friends and/or family? If so, I'd be glad to hear it. My Computer Science teacher has been trying to 'scare me' from joining, because he thinks I have great promise for programming. Oddly enough, he's one of my references. In any case, any real army stories are appreciated.

Thanks.

ZeroVega · « **Reply #1 on:** June 03, 2006, 04:47:36 pm »

Well, I have no first hand or second hand experiance with the Canadian Army (I was doubtful until now that you guys even had one).

But my father was in the U.S. Army for 20 years so I can give you a few examples of what that's like.

First Few years he lived in Texas. Then Alabama. Then Germany. Then back to Texas. Then to another base in Texas. Then Tennessee. Then Kansas. Then New York. He spent a year in Korea and depending on what you plan to do in the Army, you will have weeks where you'll be away for retraining, new training, and mock battles. Physical evaluations, and there's usually a standard level of fitness. Then of course you must be ready for war.

Now some people use the Army as a way to pay for college or for a career choice because they have nothing else to do. My advice would be to test the waters in other careers before committing; because joining the Army is a FULL commitment and is not a decision to be made lightly. Honestly, I think the things that makes a good soldiers (whether actually fighting or working behind the scenes) is dedication, a sense of pride in his duty, and a desire to serve. As for army stories, I can't give you any from my family. Though I have watched several documentaries, I don't believe I could do them justice.

ZV-

ParryWins · « **Reply #2 on:** June 03, 2006, 04:52:20 pm »

I am very grateful for your reply =)

And that appeals to me. I love moving around, and I yearn to explore.

Again, thanks a lot for your input

Nyralotep · « **Reply #3 on:** June 03, 2006, 09:27:01 pm »

Canadian Army, I have no idea.

American Army, well I have more than enough experience for that one.

Don't join just because you like moving around and like to explore thouogh. Programming and military life do share some paralels though such as attention to detail and doing mundane tasks to no end. In the military you'll be doing them phsically, in programming in the mind.

My suggestion: dont go in for romanticized ideas, it's a job like any other and gets very boring quickly. Plus once you're in the military and it doesn't work out there is no easy way out like a regular job. If you like regimentation and don't mind being constantly under supervision try it out. ZV has some really good points too. If you do be smart and stay single though, dont put a signigicant other through the stress of military life.

As for programming, there are some very good ones here (my opinion at least) that can weigh in about programming.

Delta7 · « **Reply #4 on:** June 03, 2006, 09:55:31 pm »

welcome to the "suck".

Army life can really suck bad. It can also be really exciting. It depends on your perspective and what you want to do with your life. Like was said before, don't join for romantisized ideals. There is very little glory in military life. Duty and selfless sacrifice to something you may not always understand or agree with. Long hours of hard work, and little sleep. Bad days may out number the good. Again it all depends on your perspective. If you are single and young, then I would give a hearty thumbs up! Military life is a great expirience. And you will be apart of soemthing much bigger than you ever imagined. The expirience you get in the military is priceless! I say join up for a short period of time. 2-3 years then reevaluate when your first enlistment expires. I have spent the last 14 years in the US Air Force. And I have no regrets at all.

Hope this helps your decision.

Cronk

Chongo · « **Reply #5 on:** June 03, 2006, 10:29:19 pm »

I'm going to be very honest here, and a lot of folks don't like talk like this because they didn't get to do what they wanted in the military. Bear in mind that everything I'm saying applies to US DoD, not canadian.

Here's the first thing to think about. The US Army just dropped their standards to allow individuals with I think an IQ above 80 I think. The US Marines just dropped their standards to around 90. Bear in mind that 70 and below is considered legally handicapped. This is not a knock on the military, the best people I know and work with are in the military, it's just the way things are right now. There's a huge disparity of quality, some belong doing menial labor due to capability, some are rocket scientists. In addition, you can get about a 30k signing bonus right now if you aren't ignorant about how you join. So just think about that. The military needs you, there are shortages in almost every western culture that isn't requiring civil service. So bear in mind what lump of individuals you're competing with, because if you're well above the bar mentally and physically, you are a prized asset.

The primary thing you need to remember is that you're volunteering. This is the big set of cards you come to the table with. Recruiters prey off the standard ignorant individual fresh out of highschool that just walks in ready and willing to be told what they're going to do. And they get shipped off to boot camp another number to be slated from there. Thing is, you can walk out on that recruiter and he knows it. And if you're intelligent and athletic and bring cards to the table, you should be pretty bold in there. You CAN get them to guarantee you, on paper, what billet (job) you will get after boot camp. The only thing that will stop this is if you don't meet the standards for it, in which case you can have it written in most cases that you can basically drop out... though that is a bit embarrassing.

What seems to most often happen is that folks don't realize what they want to do until they're in boot camp amongst their peers, and they start realizing what the 'cool' jobs are. And then everyone competes for them. The big key is figuring out what EXACTLY is out there and what you want to do before you sign for years of your life. And then basically demand them when you go in there. If it doesn't work out, if they refuse you... then it's okay to leave! This recruiter is an ordinary dude who fully knows his shortages. This isn't any reason to take advantage of them or abuse them, you just must recognize this so you don't get railroaded because of insecurity in the face of an individual in a uniform who is 8 or more years older then you and hence a lot more confident. So determine what you want to do and be bold about it, because if you aren't then you're going to get a lot of decisions made for you, which is of course an integral part of the military, but it doesn't have to be when you start off. You should have a goal in mind and set yourself up for it.

That said, you can't waltz in and say, 'I'm only joining up if you guarantee me a Special Forces billet'. I mean, you can, but you better be an outstanding individual and ready for some resistance and a very complicated run around to convince you otherwise. But hey, if you're not in the best shape, and have some serious assets, in let's say computer science or engineering... then you figure out every potential job in that field and you figure out what will be best for you and you go in there ready to tell them that you want that job and why you should have it. Then, as long as you have your ducks in a row, you should say you want guarantees that you get that job.

You can do this, and you should definitely not forget it. You just need to figure out what you want to do and what you realistically are holding the cards for. Military tracks can really square away your life and direction and offer a lot. You just want to slow down and educate yourself before you sign papers.

Flaron1990 · « **Reply #6 on:** June 04, 2006, 05:51:19 am »

Yeah my Dad is in the Canadian Military and he doesn't mind his job.
It's just in the millitary there are a bunch of really stupid/annoying people how think their all king. However that is mainly in the Infantry trades (RCR). My dad works in logistics (Pretty word for saying he stacks shelves, and fills out paper work), it's easier then most other Trades. There are also your other more hands on Trades like Engineering, piloting, radio ops, and I think there is some computer programing (I'm not too sure, it may be mixed in with other stuff).

Hope all this useless information helps.

PS. This might not be so helpful, but I plan on joining the reserves next year for the summer, and then going to Royal Military College (RMC) When graduate from High School, so your getting a one sided argument here.

Eight-Bit · « **Reply #7 on:** June 04, 2006, 06:08:16 am »

Oh, man, are we in the same boat. The US Navy has been literally attacking my home and cellphone lately because I apparantly rocked on several of the practice Armed Forces Vocational Aptitude Battery. It is a lot like a placement exam for college level courses. I did what Chongo suggested. I walked in, dressed very well, properly groomed, and spoke in a confident and articulate manner. There are several things you need to know in order to get what you want and deserve. The first being that you MUST have a strong idea of what you are able to do. I'm a pack a day smoker, I work out very rarely, yet I am physically fit. The sign on bonus is massive, along with the yearly pay, and the bonuses that I would get for each program I entered. If I had the desire, and didn't own a guitar, I would be making an insane amount of loot right now. If all goes well, and if my life continues down the gloomy path it's heading on, I will be considering the Navy as a possibility.
I would strongly suggest that you take several of the practice tests before you even consider taking your crazy northern version of the AFVAB.

Milo · « **Reply #8 on:** June 04, 2006, 06:11:20 am »

Granted I don't have the personal experience of serving in the military, I had quite a few advises from my mentor, a retired US Navy Commander.

1) Read the contract carefully. As Chongo said, they can usually write stuff they promise onto the contract if you are highly qualified. Just the word of the recruiter doesn't count.

2) Try to be an Officer if at all possible. There are plenty of full-ride military scholarship (not sure if this applies in Canada) that puts you through college in ROTCs. Officers gets better pays, rooms, etc.

3) Being in the military is like all other jobs. Don't be tricked into signing up just because of the recruiting ads making you feel "honorable" or "sacrificing for your country is great." Be prepared for the reality of the services, especially Army.

ParryWins · « **Reply #9 on:** June 04, 2006, 07:11:49 am »

I was never expecting this sort of outpour, and I thank you all. About the romanticized idea message, it has made me a little less biased, and I thank you for it. I do see the military as a job, but I haven't thought about the repetitiveness of the tasks. One of my friends in the reserves has told me that you dig holes fairly often, as well as do shooting drills. While that is not a problem, doing that day in an day out can get a bit tedious. About the being an officer, I've heard that myself, but I have doubts. I'm going to call a recruiting center and ask the difference in duty between an officer and an NCM. As for the pay, I don't mind, I'll be on base most (if not all) year. Some McDonalds followed by a medical exam (super size me!) is about all I'd need. As for the paying for education, canada has the same program, but I believe I've also seen a similar program for NCM's. More to look at for me then, eh? < Don't laugh. Again, thank you all for your thoughtful input.

Chuckles_McChuck · « **Reply #10 on:** June 04, 2006, 07:34:21 am »

Quote

ZeroVega - 6/3/2006 4:47 PM

Well, I have no first hand or second hand experiance with the Canadian Army (I was doubtful until now that you guys even had one).
ZV-

ARG!!! How many times have I told you already that I was in the Canadian Military

*ahem* anyways, perspective from someone who is in the military now (Navy not army) and happens to be Canadian. I've been in for nearly 4 years now (will be exactly 4 years in October) and I very much enjoy it. First things first, never, and I mean never listen to the recruiters when chosing a job. Their advise is to try and suck you in to filling the posissions that need to be filled, throwing in fibs on how great it is and all that, sometimes with the whole romanticism ..., but those jobs are empty for a reason. The Canadian military is much smaller then the american military and thus we have many posissions that need filling and the recruiters job is to moreso try and get suckers into those jobs then recruit you into one you would like. Do some research and find out what you really like to do is the best advise I can give you. Unfortunately there is no programming equivalent trade in the Canadian military, I know this because I tried looking for one, I can give you some advise on trades that are closest to it if you wish to research them. ATIS TECH, ASIS TECH, COMMS REASEARCHER, NAV COMM. I covered the entire triforce in those trades (Army, Navy, Airforce).

Anyways, I can tell you from experience that relationships are hard to keep while in the military, and people like myself tend to be very careful with it. We might not have the nice toys like the americans (Our latest in military technology is pretty much 8 years ago, its pretty sad), but we get payed well, much better then americans accually. A private in the canadian military can make about the same amount of a staff seargent in the american military. We get many benifets too and the pension is always nice, and I've seen guys lose everything because they got married, divorced and the wife claimed alamoney (personal thought on alimoney is its the worst thing that can happen to a guy, you could have a divorce because your wife cheated on you and still have to pay her for the rest of your life, Ive never heard of a woman lose in court for alimoney). However if you like to travel I would definately give it a try, I'm only 23 and have already visitted Japan, China, Korea, Mexico and many nice places in America (San fran, san deigo, Hawaii) and in the fall I'm going to the persian gulf which is a 6 month tour that will ahve me visit many many countries.

I have more to say, but its time to eat, if you ahve any questions just sent me a PM or e-mail me. If you really want to do this I'll give you small basic hints. Mostly just to help you save your money. Oh and if you aren't doing basic in St. Jean your not doing basic, I've talked to everyone whos done basic in other bases in the country and its not even half as intense.

ZeroVega · « **Reply #11 on:** June 04, 2006, 07:39:06 am »

Quote

LFFF - 6/4/2006 10:34 AMA private in the canadian military can make about the same amount of a staff seargent in the american military. We get many benifets too and the pension is always nice.

Wow... "Canadia" ain't soundin so bad.

EventHorizon · « **Reply #12 on:** June 04, 2006, 07:54:25 am »

Quote

ZeroVega - 6/3/2006 11:47 PM

Well, I have no first hand or second hand experiance with the Canadian Army (I was doubtful until now that you guys even had one).

ZV-

*coughs and points to the war of 1812* --> http://www.gatewayno.com/history/War1812.html

Chuckles_McChuck · « **Reply #13 on:** June 04, 2006, 08:12:04 am »

hehe, when we burned down the white house... also what seems to be forgotten is the fact that we accually joined in WW2 before the americans did, which I find some americans claim we never participated in.

ParryWins · « **Reply #14 on:** June 04, 2006, 08:46:13 am »

Looking forward to keeping in contact with you LFFF

Thanks.

Chuckles_McChuck · « **Reply #15 on:** June 04, 2006, 11:08:19 am »

as for the officer thing, the best route to go is start off as an NCM and try to go for your commission if you plan to stay for career. Two reasons, you'll have a better idea of what you want to do as an officer working for them as NCM's and when you retire thats TWO pensions that go into your bank, your NCM pension and your commission pension, they dont cancel eachother out... its alot of money man.

ZeroVega · « **Reply #16 on:** June 04, 2006, 04:23:34 pm »

To Event and LFFF:
Twas a joke. I shall say no more as I seem to have struck a nerve. Props though, for the speedy defense of your Army.

ParryWins · « **Reply #17 on:** June 04, 2006, 05:59:55 pm »

Haha LFFF, that's a good idea

Anodynes · « **Reply #18 on:** June 05, 2006, 06:33:27 am »

Let me give you a personal slant on why I never joined the military... and I am an old fart with a lot of real life experience. The reason I never joined is I am truely too chaotic in nature. Think about this and your own personality... are you chaotic?

I went to college and got a degree. I have worked nearly 15 years in my field of experience and I have moved 6 times and have had 8 bosses with four different companies.

The reason I move around: I don't like people telling me what to do. I don't like working for someone that I dissagree with. I don't play office politics and kiss up to my boss, etc.

Now, you may say I am just a screwball or a hard-head, but you should answer these questions for yourself (which apply to real civil jobs as well as in the military):

1) Can I take direct orders from my supervisor/commander/etc and follow the orders even if I don't agree to them?
2) Am I willing to follow the rules every time and not try to bend them to what I want?
3) Will I do something that I know is wrong but, I do it because I know I won't get caught?
4) Have I ever been able to stick with something and see it through even if things go wrong? i.e. Can I handle a four year (or more) commitment?

I mean this because if you go military and take it for four years you can not leave and you will be forced to take orders or you will be in very serious trouble. You can not just walk away from the military.

ZeroVega · « **Reply #19 on:** June 05, 2006, 07:27:46 am »

Yarg. What Anodynes says is true. My father was in the Army for twenty years, he retired as a Major, but over the last five years of his career he was passed up for promotion to Lieutenant Colonel seven times. Now, he spoke his mind, he followed orders, but he didn't goof off and if something was wrong he did something about it. An example would be when he was under the command of a Colonel and he was dividing resources among different Brigades I believe. The Colonel kept pushing him to give more to his own Brigade but when my father distributed the supplies based on need he recieved a poor evaluation. It's all about who you know and who you tick off. So... can you handle it?