Author Topic: Well This Question Popped In To My Mind (Read 601 times)

Gulnyr · « **Reply #20 on:** January 30, 2008, 03:27:51 pm »

Quote from: twidget658

So there is a certain amount of attachment to these "avatars"; these virtual "people". We deal with death everyday. Why would we want to in a game. Yes, yes, I know...it is only a game. We have to fear death, etc. What about a pet? It is only an animal. Why is there such an attachment?

Things matter because they can be lost. If they couldn't be lost, if they would last forever or could be easily replaced, we wouldn't be so attached or feel any emotion for them. The ability to lose a thing makes that thing special.

In games where I can save and reload, I don't have much attachment to the characters at all, even if I've developed little stories for them in my mind. A friend and I develop characters for whatever games we're playing, computer or tabletop, and there can only ever be one 'copy' of that character per universe. If the character dies in a universe, he's gone from that universe forever. Since there are multiple copies of the characters, I don't get as attached as I do for Jennara here on Layonara, but it's a bummer to lose a copy. It changes the way we play the games sometimes, but only for that particular unit with the character. There's no attachment at all to other units.

Script Wrecked · « **Reply #21 on:** January 30, 2008, 09:22:14 pm »

Quote from: Gulnyr

In games where I can save and reload, I don't have much attachment to the characters at all, even if I've developed little stories for them in my mind.

Interesting. I have gotten attached to characters due to the amount of time spend playing them (due, in part to the save and reload mechanism), as opposed to not being so attached to characters who have lead brief, truncated lives.

Regards,

Script Wrecked.

twidget658 · « **Reply #22 on:** January 30, 2008, 10:17:24 pm »

Quote from: Gulnyr

Things matter because they can be lost. If they couldn't be lost, if they would last forever or could be easily replaced, we wouldn't be so attached or feel any emotion for them. The ability to lose a thing makes that thing special.

Things matter because you enjoy them and like to spend time with them. A history, memories and great times are made and had. I don't get attached because I can loss them. I don't look at the end of a life to enjoy everything up to the death. I live for the moment and enjoy them then. This is where the bond is made.

Seems like if you look at the loss of something, then you would distance yourself from it so you do not become emotionally attached, and in a way, protect yourself from the hurt.

Gulnyr · « **Reply #23 on:** January 30, 2008, 11:05:23 pm »

Good point, Script Wrecked. I've been considering past examples for a bit again, and I think it's the time that matters to me more than the character in reloadable situations. Time and character are separate in my mind, then. Generally, anything that can be saved and reloaded is single-player, so there's no interaction with other real people to enjoy, and there's probably not a whole lot of real impact I can have on the story. In the end, then, it's the story I care about, I think; I want to hear this tale with my time, and as long as I've got a character that can get me through, all's good. Even if I personalize the character somehow, the character doesn't really matter in the end. It could be anyone. I can't remember a single Baldur's Gate character I played, but I enjoyed the game and the story.

Layonara is completely different. The story comes from having a character who's a 'real' person, with 'real' friends and 'real' problems, living a 'real' life. No saves or reloads. There's one chance to do something right, and there are consequences, even death. The time and the character are intimately linked, just like with actual real people and pets in real life. You do live in the moment, because the moment is what you have. You have to visit your grandparents now, because they won't be here tomorrow. You grab the 'real' life of your character and 'live' it, because they won't last forever.

While a lack of permanent death wouldn't necessarily change that, it does make life cheaper. It adds a lot to the RP when players know their characters could actually be lost permanently. Negative consequences aren't our most favorite things, but they do make things better on the RP front. When the Soul Mother was on vacation, people took risks they wouldn't have normally, without much consideration for their characters; the characters had less value because they couldn't 'really' die. I didn't really take advantage of that, but I don't blame those who did; if you can't lose, why not bet it all, right?

Just because there can be a permanent death doesn't mean that people will automatically look at the loss and become emotionally detached. I would say that people who live in the moment play through their characters, regardless of the potential loss. Milt played straight through Cole Norseman, knowing he could be lost. He never looked to the loss, though; he lived in the moment. Did it hurt? Absolutely. It hurt a lot of people. As cool as Cole was, though, I'm not sure I would change anything. Feels weird saying that. People who shelve their characters so they won't die permanently are the ones looking forward at the loss, choosing not to play to avoid the hurt that would come from the final death.

Obviously a lot of strong opinions on that topic, judging from the various threads that include it now and then. Not really on the topic of characters who permanently died, but I started typing and just couldn't stop! I'm all opinionated about the value of strong consequences, I guess.

Blackguy · « **Reply #24 on:** February 26, 2008, 08:31:14 am »

Quote from: Shadowblade225

Yep - that happened a while back. I think the first character to perm was played by Tathnolu no? (Not Tath the elf, but Tath the player).

Nope, Gotak was the first to perm. Happent back in v1, or beta4 or whatever we called it backthen. No cutscreens, no soulmother thing, just a screen that told me to quit the game

But I had Leanthar logging within 5min and he acted a scene out for those "lucky" "unlucky" to see the perm of Gotak.

http://forums.layonara.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=100143

http://forums.layonara.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=101284

These are the only pictures I could find. I think it happent around april 2004

Lynn1020 · « **Reply #25 on:** February 26, 2008, 10:15:01 am »

I know this is getting a little off the topic of the thread but it has been a little over two weeks since my pc permed. I have to say that it has really made me lose any desire to rp with my other characters. I have seen that some have no problem bouncing back after perming a character. I guess I got a little to attached. She wasn't a character that made changes in Layonara and I'm totally okay with that. I didn't play to have the "best". I play to have fun.

But that character helped me get through a patrol when my husband was gone through all the holidays. Then when he was home we would spend so much time just the two of us rping. Both of our characters turned out differently than what we had planned. They developed over time. I loved to rp with her. I don't need to be told... be careful, don't do stupid things, careful who you travel with or the best one.. just don't die. There are those that have died twice the amount she did and they will never perm. Its all in the rolls. I was one of the unlucky ones. I think in her last ten deaths she lost 4 SS. Even two in row and in one day.

I know nothing can be done about it guess I just needed to vent. But unless you have permed a character or came close to it you really don't know how it feels.

It really stinks... But boy it does remind you that it is just a game after all.

Blackguy · « **Reply #26 on:** February 26, 2008, 11:21:11 am »

I totally understand how you feel, I lost all will to play layo when my first char died. I am still an opponent against the permsystem, but that is another talk. And yes.. play smart and take care of your char, you only get one "first" char.

ColtCommando · « **Reply #27 on:** February 26, 2008, 12:13:55 pm »

Hehe, those Gotak picture bring back memories.

Like when I look at that little blue robe wearing thing with the funny looking helmet of armor II and think about my own char.

I got my 9th DT, well 7th, 8th, and 9th, in the most retarded ways. Running around gathering CNR, ide see this creature over in the distance and be like... I wonder what would happen if Cid tryed to... *bang! SoulStrand!*

Every single one was me, by myself, doing something stupid. So at lvl 19, with 9DTs, I decided I was only going to go out adventuring with the players I was playing with then and trusted, and I was only going to go on trips I know we could do, and I turned back and let the party go on ahead plenty of times for fear of death.

And yes, I died about 7 times between 19 and 21... Im just one lucky gnome I guess.

Quote

"Ye'll be foine!"

"Look 'ere at tis!"

"Les jus' go a wee bit furter..."

"Come on ter ye sally! Les jus' look pass tis door 'ere"

"Nae lass.. ye jus' stick be'oind meh an' tings'll go roigh' foine"

When I look at these names... I realize I am the most unreliable dwarf ever.

Chongo, I laughed for nearly ten minutes when I read this post.... the gods of Layonara only know how many of those one liners Cid has been duped into, and no matter how crazy it is when you finally get out withought anyone else in the party, "ye jus' stick be'oind meh an' tings'll go roigh' foine" still seems oddly reasuring.

EdTheKet · « **Reply #28 on:** February 26, 2008, 03:45:13 pm »

Thordan Ironheart, on my Triangle of Eyes quest (Quintayne Rosewyne's ECDQ).

Not nice if somebody perms on your quest.

Acacea · « **Reply #29 on:** February 26, 2008, 03:57:14 pm »

Though he was revived later, like Gotak. (And Rurik, who permed on his epic, I believe? Ylanec anira alw eo Fceew

)

EdTheKet · « **Reply #30 on:** February 26, 2008, 04:23:08 pm »

Yeah, because of the results of Athus' ECDQ.

Hellblazer · « **Reply #31 on:** February 26, 2008, 05:41:33 pm »

Tarianna Poetr is sadly added to this list.

twidget658 · « **Reply #32 on:** February 26, 2008, 10:00:03 pm »

Quote from: Lynn1020

I know this is getting a little off the topic of the thread but it has been a little over two weeks since my pc permed. I have to say that it has really made me lose any desire to rp with my other characters. I have seen that some have no problem bouncing back after perming a character. I guess I got a little to attached. She wasn't a character that made changes in Layonara and I'm totally okay with that. I didn't play to have the "best". I play to have fun. But that character helped me get through a patrol when my husband was gone through all the holidays. Then when he was home we would spend so much time just the two of us rping. Both of our characters turned out differently than what we had planned. They developed over time. I loved to rp with her. I don't need to be told... be careful, don't do stupid things, careful who you travel with or the best one.. just don't die. There are those that have died twice the amount she did and they will never perm. Its all in the rolls. I was one of the unlucky ones. I think in her last ten deaths she lost 4 SS. Even two in row and in one day. I know nothing can be done about it guess I just needed to vent. But unless you have permed a character or came close to it you really don't know how it feels. It really stinks... But boy it does remind you that it is just a game after all.

We both took the perm hard. I haven't even played Lance since then and I don't know if I ever will.

Randi and lance were created together and was a pair. As Lynn1020 said, they didn;t turn out like we had planned, it turned out better. Playing one without the other doesn't seem right.

Hellblazer · « **Reply #33 on:** November 03, 2008, 12:53:23 am »

Quote from: Lynn1020

I know nothing can be done about it guess I just needed to vent. But unless you have permed a character or came close to it you really don't know how it feels. It really stinks... But boy it does remind you that it is just a game after all.

Heck I do know how that feels. Rain that has been my main rp character table top, other rpg and here since i was 13, came close to perming twice on layo.

Eight-Bit · « **Reply #34 on:** November 03, 2008, 10:12:22 am »

Quote from: EdTheKet

Thordan Ironheart, on my Triangle of Eyes quest (Quintayne Rosewyne's ECDQ).

Not nice if somebody perms on your quest.

Not nice doesn't sum up being responsible, in some kind of way, (you could of used that deathward, gotak), for the first permed character of layonara.

Grid Blader · « **Reply #35 on:** November 03, 2008, 05:43:34 pm »

I got Quantum from 18 to 21 with out perming out. A lot of close calls. But I know if Quantum can make it so can alot of other people.

mumbles · « **Reply #36 on:** November 03, 2008, 06:07:06 pm »

Voon Made it from 17 to 21 on 9 Dts , with the help of his friends LOL

And the final Strand gave up at 26 ...

Time stop and multipul Hellballs if i remember right , extramly bad on ones health

silverblades · « **Reply #37 on:** November 03, 2008, 10:43:40 pm »

silverhand

made the list as those that chose to call it quits at 9dt's

gilshem ironstone · « **Reply #38 on:** November 04, 2008, 07:17:48 am »

*Admiring Shiff for his restraint* Shiff Dragonheart, everyone's favourite mercenary with a heart of gold.

Hellblazer · « **Reply #39 on:** January 26, 2010, 05:10:57 am »

Add to the list, Brian.. Out lived by his own father, who was saved twice from the clutch of the soul wrench.