Author Topic: travel time becoming a real burden (Read 976 times)

jrizz · « **on:** February 05, 2011, 04:33:49 pm »

Any ideas on dealing with the challenge of a small player population and the amount of play time lost trying to get a party together to RP/bash/do anything?

I get an hour or two here and there, and often lose 45 to 60 mins just trying to get everyone in one place and to some starting point. The major chunk of this time is just in getting from one place to another. To top it off that time is not even RP opportunity time since all you are trying to do is get as fast as you can from point A to point B. It is just totally lost time for everything.

Thoughts folks?

Alatriel · « **Reply #1 on:** February 05, 2011, 04:52:55 pm »

maybe having an object that can be purchased, that might not necessarily be something extremely cheap, that can be used when not in combat, but could somehow work as a portable teleport to the housing portal locations (Center, Prantz, Arnax). One time use only, so it would burn upon usage.

davidhoff · « **Reply #2 on:** February 05, 2011, 08:08:03 pm »

Sorry about that Jrizz...my fault for getting with you guys so late (I had a crafting addict moment). But it does help to arrange things on the forums, even if its only a few hours away. Or if you tell others how much time you have upfront that might help with scheduling and urgency.

gilshem ironstone · « **Reply #3 on:** February 05, 2011, 08:38:44 pm »

The Player events calenda. Is also a good way to get people together with a specific time in mind.

jrizz · « **Reply #4 on:** February 05, 2011, 09:13:14 pm »

@Davidoff this is not about any one time, today just highlighted a common issue.

BTW a sub issue that stems from the same challenge is coming on late when a group is already underway. Happens all the time to many players. The result is that the group has to stop everything and wait or the late player just has to say "well guess I cant play on layo tonight"

For computer games it is more about, when you get some extra time you play. And logging on and needing an hour to get people together shoots a lot of time that could be spent interacting. In short we do not currently have a workaround or solution for the challenge.

Dorganath · « **Reply #5 on:** February 05, 2011, 10:41:39 pm »

This has come up before, and really my response is the same to all who have thrown this out.

Come up with something that benefits the casual player (i.e. someone with not a lot of time to play) and which cannot be abused by the player with lots of time who just wants to get to XP/gold/loot/CNR faster, and I'll see what we can do.

Items that enable rapid travel which have to be bought and destroy themselves impact the casual player, who has less time to earn gold and thus has less of it, more than the one with lots of time who has more time to get more gold. As an anti-abuse measure, it falls flat.

This is actually not a new problem, it's just that in the past, there were just more people on who you might be able to RP with or go adventure with. Now there's not. The problem is, of course, the more people opt for going out and bashing, the fewer opportunities there are for people who want a little more RP in their lives, so it's kind of a self-perpetuating problem.

I know this isn't a popular suggestion, but if time is too short to organize a huge run somewhere, hang out and RP. Or go somewhere closer. If you want opportunities to RP while adventuring, then it shouldn't matter so much that you're not getting 200-400XP per kill or raking in a few thousand in gold. Go to Haven and try it without fully buffing (if your levels support such folly), go somewhere you've not gone in a while. Sit around and talk about the plot. These are just some alternatives, of course.

Like I said, if someone could work up something viable, I'm all ears.

jrizz · « **Reply #6 on:** February 05, 2011, 11:26:56 pm »

Quote from: Dorganath

This has come up before, and really my response is the same to all who have thrown this out.

This is actually not a new problem, it's just that in the past, there were just more people on who you might be able to RP with or go adventure with. Now there's not. The problem is, of course, the more people opt for going out and bashing, the fewer opportunities there are for people who want a little more RP in their lives, so it's kind of a self-perpetuating problem.

Yes I know this has come up in the past. The current challenge is that the opportunities to get together (for anything RP/Bashing/whatever) are much less due to the smaller size of the community not due to more bashing and less RPing going on. I would say there is more RPing and less bashing happening on layo now more then ever but once again the smaller size of the player base and the dispersal (going to their homes, shops, temples, crating halls, CNR gathering) of players after they do manage to get together makes it a burden to reassemble.

Of course I understand the issue of abuse, but as I have said many times in the past when this is brought up as a reason not to do something that would benefit the majority of the community, that is not a good reason not to do it. Truly right now we just dont have many of those kinds of players left, maybe none. It seems to me that the current player based operates well within the current rules.

Still we dont want to open the door to temptation. So Dorg's challenge is how can we put something in place that wont be abused?

Do we have a teleport item that has some cost to recharge (true, craft, something that promotes RP) and to have that item you must sign an agreement of non-abuse? Just a thought.

Dorganath · « **Reply #7 on:** February 06, 2011, 12:04:07 am »

Quote from: jrizz

Do we have a teleport item that has some cost to recharge (true, craft, something that promotes RP) and to have that item you must sign an agreement of non-abuse? Just a thought.

Have? No. Can make? Of course. But again, requiring gold or crafting or some other material or immaterial exchange impacts those with the least amount of time much more. I'll give you the best example I can think of. My characters presently have about zero income on average. That's right, zero. So how often could one of them afford to use something like this, do you think? Secondarily, what craft would you choose, and how would you make it accessible to everyone without it being prone to mass-production?

As for agreements, that's one more thing to police. I'd kind of not like to have to watch people that closely.

As for the kind of player that's left, consider that those who would rather RP than go bashing every time have stopped bothering to log in, or log in infrequently because people are scattered and/or are off bashing. About the only way to really solve that from the admin/dev side of things is to shrink the size of the world AND make bashing less profitable.

Players actually have greater power for change here, but it involves breaking patterns and old habits.

But this is going off on a tangent.

Guardian 452 · « **Reply #8 on:** February 06, 2011, 12:46:14 am »

Ive always love Layo for its RP. Ive never found anything like it since being here. Ive had times at my keyboard where I was so into RP that I was in tears, hands shaking and literally unable to type. But, the gameplay side of Layo and myself just drifted too far apart to make it my permanant home anymore. RL does not allow me to put in 6 to 12 hours a day in game.

I wish I knew of a way to find that balance between the RP'er and the Basher. Between the causal player who likes to bash or RP or any mix...for 2 hours a couple times a week ...... and the guy who gets up in the morning fires up the game and doesnt leave his chair accept for bathroom breaks and refills of Mt Dew all day... then starts all over again in the Morning. (sounds like me about 6 years ago LOL)

How are the other guys doing it? (the other guys being the big MMO guys) They seem to have a pretty good grasp on the bashing and crafting part of things... but I have yet to find RP ANYWHERE that rivals what I've experienced in Layonara.... who among you can say something you're character did in Everquest (1 or 2) WoW, LOTRO, etc... made any kind of change in or to that game world!? How many peoples characters have influenced Layonara over its lifetime thus far, and continuing to influence how the world is?

I continue to try and think of ways how to make Layo "friendly" to a broader group including myself at this point. But I guess I kind of take a step back and think... well this is what "I" want.... but what will it do to the place? Does this need to become another WoW just so I can play here again? That would be truly tragic. Like watching someone playing heval metal on a Stratovarios (SP) ... and yes im sure that's been done.

My last thought.... their is a system in place right now allowing certain classes to "call home". Like it or not...hidden behind RP and sometimes not, this system is already being abused. Maybe that sytem should be opened up for "X" amount of time to everyone. See how it goes and go back to the way it was, keep it for all, or continue to tweak it further. You know... gotta take that step to know right?

Yeah I should go back and remove all but the last paragraph that actually deals directly with the issue of the OP... but well I wanted to unload and there ya go!

G-452

Shiokara · « **Reply #9 on:** February 06, 2011, 01:01:04 am »

It seems to me the best way to do this is to create an item that doesn't necessarily destroy itself, but that has a really long cooldown, say usable once a week. The casual player without much time isn't affected much by a week cooldown because he doesn't get on to play much anyway, so he'll just save his quick-port for that one time he really wants to schedule a trip. Meanwhile, your hardcore gamer still can't possess multiple of the item, and still can only use it once a week. Sure, he probably won't ever miss his chance to use the item, but is it egregious abuse? Well, that's for someone more qualified to decide.

It's very difficult to create an item that rewards casual players over hardcore players. If you could create a cooldown timer that only counts down when the player is not logged in, then you might come very close, though! Then you'd have more often use by casual gamers and less often use for hardcore gamers.

So in short, maybe it could be one item, non-tradeable and all that jazz, that lets you have some sort of fast travel and/or return on a really long cool down. Personally, I think it should be a fast return to bindpoint. That would also solve many cases where people need GM assistance getting unstuck such as random map teleports to inaccessible areas and such. Though I guess a quick-port item could do that too. (And does it really matter if a player uses it on something like that? Then that's their use for the week or whatever.)

willhoff · « **Reply #10 on:** February 06, 2011, 01:24:14 am »

I think there was a ring on one of the NWN 1 modules that had a pair or mate. (i.e. two identical rings) You could use that ring once per rest to transport you to the wearer of the other ring.

So two characters decide to bind their rings to each other and they can teleport/transport to that person and that person only were ever they may be.

This could help with grouping if you have a fellow character that you normally rp/bash/mixture of both with that is out with a group.

As far as exploits, they are still there ofcourse, but I think they are minimized in that the person you bind your ring with is usually with you if your harvesting cnr/loot/items etc.

Anyways not totally thought through, but thought I'd toss it out there.

Script Wrecked · « **Reply #11 on:** February 06, 2011, 01:31:25 am »

Quote from: jrizz

Any ideas on dealing with the challenge of a small player population and the amount of play time lost trying to get a party together to RP/bash/do anything?

I get an hour or two here and there, and often lose 45 to 60 mins just trying to get everyone in one place and to some starting point. The major chunk of this time is just in getting from one place to another. To top it off that time is not even RP opportunity time since all you are trying to do is get as fast as you can from point A to point B. It is just totally lost time for everything.

Thoughts folks?

Balder's Gate had the overland map. Layonara has always looked to me like it was laid out like Balder's Gate, sans the overland map facility.

Howabout something that would let you port to any of the settlement centers (once you had visited them the first time), and then head out from there?

jrizz · « **Reply #12 on:** February 06, 2011, 02:18:33 am »

Quote from: Script Wrecked

Balder's Gate had the overland map. Layonara has always looked to me like it was laid out like Balder's Gate, sans the overland map facility.

Howabout something that would let you port to any of the settlement centers (once you had visited them the first time), and then head out from there?

Settlement centers being cities, towns, forts, castles?

Now that would go a long way. Rocking good suggestion.

willhoff · « **Reply #13 on:** February 06, 2011, 02:26:50 am »

Or maybe instead of cites...maybe bind stones that you have visited. It wouldnt be as many places but you could rp that your soul was bound there at one time.

Another thought maybe you could make the item unusable if your underground, in a crypt/structure to avoid exploits.

Lareth · « **Reply #14 on:** February 06, 2011, 09:01:11 am »

How about just expanding the system that already exists? Adding a few more locations to the housing teleports would certainly cut down on a lot of time spent running, for example

Mistone: Add Haven
Alindor: Add Fort Homestead
Dregar: Add Audira or North Fort
Belinara: Add Hilm Castle
Tilmar: Add Creedo or Huangjin

This way these would be as available to everyone, no matter if they play a lot or a little. The locations are just suggestions, so could totally be changed to suit (epecially Hilm Castle given current Plot events).

Alatriel · « **Reply #15 on:** February 06, 2011, 10:06:16 am »

Quote from: Lareth

How about just expanding the system that already exists? Adding a few more locations to the housing teleports would certainly cut down on a lot of time spent running, for example

Mistone: Add Haven
Alindor: Add Fort Homestead
Dregar: Add Audira or North Fort
Belinara: Add Hilm Castle
Tilmar: Add Creedo or Huangjin

This way these would be as available to everyone, no matter if they play a lot or a little. The locations are just suggestions, so could totally be changed to suit (epecially Hilm Castle given current Plot events).

Huangjin already has a portal. Haven might be a good idea. There are IC reasons we probably shouldn't want one in Audira or North Fort right now, but depending on the outcome of the Dragonstorm Campaign, adding one at Hilm Castle to link it to Blackford would not be too bad. The is already a portal there, but you could change it so that it has 2 different portal options.

(my 2 cents)

RollinsCat · « **Reply #16 on:** February 06, 2011, 10:09:10 am »

could even have a short, contained set of one-off quests lead by the Lucindite Church (hint: Connor) to "discover" these portal links, and if any of the quests are unsuccessful, well, we have no one but ourselves to blame - but it makes the actual portal usage fit with the world, and not just dues ex machina.

Frances · « **Reply #17 on:** February 06, 2011, 02:18:52 pm »

I have a couple thoughts on the matter:

First off, I like the idea of a rechargeable personal teleport to one of the population centers. I think it should recharge after a certain amount of logged off time, say 72 hours logged off. Also, to minimize abuse, it should not allow you to use it in areas tagged as 'underground', to prevent a quick escape from the Deep after getting all those emeralds.

The other half of the problem is finding a group. I've often logged in and been the only one on the server, or close to it. I don't want to have to sit around Center waiting for someone else to log in, and I don't want to be watching the status reports for when someone logs in. I suggest an item, which when used sets a flag for you of 'looking for group', and informs you of any other players on doing the same. That way, you know who's available quickly, and if you're available, others know that immediately. You're free to go about your business, and when someone else shows up looking for a group, they see you're looking too and can contact you to arrange a rendezvous. This flag should clear after an hour or upon logging out, to avoid the problem of someone forgetting to change their status.

Just my two cents...

Hellblazer · « **Reply #18 on:** February 07, 2011, 12:28:45 am »

Maybe just make a swift travel carriage system, a bit like the boats. That would cost tickets and would take you to some cities that are closer to the big rallying points that people tend to go venturing out to.

Guardian 452 · « **Reply #19 on:** February 07, 2011, 05:13:52 am »

I think Shiokara is on the right track here.

1 item that everyone has at creation - and is given to everyone already created.

Said item will have a 1 use port to "X" with a RL 3 day or longer timer on it. Though IMO 5 days is too long. The item should have NO limitation as to where it can be used... accept it CAN NOT be used in combat!
If that can be done inside NWN I'd say give this a trial period. Why not limit it so people dont "abuse" it in the deep as an example.. The whole idea of the item is to allow casual players the rare chance to get to these places, so if such restrictions are put on it... dont bother making it. LOL If Emeralds are the goal.... from my experience you are looking at giving at least a 3 hour (ONE WAY) commitment to a well oiled group doing light RP just to get 1 crack at Emeralds. The idea is to allow the casual player chances to get to these places.... so that's why the 3 day cooldown comes into play for the hardcore peeps. As it stands now... NOTHING is stopping a group of mid 20's from going to get Emeralds once a day every day.... so the above system if they choose to "call home" already slows them down a TON.

What might happen? People will just not play, or not play that character when on a cooldown. More people will get a chance to experience places that used to take 6 hour or longer round trips... cause now they can be done in 2 to 4 hours... that sounds like a good thing to me. Yes more Emeralds, Mithril and other high end CNR will be finding its way to crafters and to the markets.... well... that is a whole different can of worms that I wont go into (yet)