Use Magical Device & Scrolls

[davidhoff]

I was reading in Lore that to use a scroll with Use Magical Device (UMD) the DC is the level of the spell on the scroll +25.  I have a few questions about this because its kind of confusing.

1.  Wiki says the following regarding this special (+25) check with scrolls: "does not apply to scrolls with no class limitations, to characters with at least one bard, sorcerer, or wizard level".  I'm not sure what "with no class limitations" means could someone clear that up for me?  It seems all scrolls have some class limitations on them (i.e., only usable by wizard or sorcerer, only usable by cleric or druid, etc.)

2.  Also in regard to question one, I want to know if Layonara follows this same exception?  In other words, if a character has one level of wizard, would that allow them to look solely to the value of the scroll to determine the DC check for UMD?  Maybe an example would help: A Wizard with UMD wants to use a scroll of death ward (a 4th level cleric spell); let's say for sake of argument the value of the scroll is $4,000; Would this character need to have a UMD of 5 (which lets him use items up to $4,800), or would he need a UMD of 29 (25 + 4 for the lvl of the scroll)?

3.  Is the UMD check based off your raw UMD ability or do you get the benefit of your ability modifiers and equipment when making the check?

4.  Are item values for sake of UMD based on the value per the Lens of Pricing or is there some other way to access the value of items?

Thank you in advance for any help on this,

Davidhoff

[Lord Dark]

You do get modifier points in the rolls, but I never really use scrolls and such since I don't make an automatic 20 like some of the other rolls, so I fail quite a bit sometimes. But when I get them to work, it's pretty cool!

I don't know anything about the price values and DC's, I just use scrolls like ghostly visage or ethereal visage or things like that before a fight. But for wands, you can't really screw up on using those I think, nor if you use gloves and boots that's restricted to certain classes.

[darkstorme]

In order:
[list=1]

• At least two scrolls, Raise Dead and Resurrection, have no such limitations.  Any character can use them.  (Except an Evocation-specialist Wizard.)
  
• It's a good question.  From what I can tell from the BioBoards, Wizards/Sorcerers/Bards only have to have UMD sufficient to emulate the class of the scroll.  So a Wizard/Rogue or Bard could use a Cleric scroll if he/she had a UMD that covered the cost of the scroll.  So in your example, a UMD of 5 would do the trick.
• Ability modifiers and equipment are included in the check.  No d20 is rolled, however, save when a non-Wizard/Bard/Sorcerer Rogue attempts to use a scroll.  (It should go without saying that only Rogues and Bards can use UMD, regardless of items - like the Belt of the Crag Cat - that give bonuses.)
• I'm not sure where the Lens of Pricing draws from, but I believe it gives the value on which the UMD check draws.  (People with access to the scripts, feel free to correct me.)

[Hellblazer]

Skalds and assasins can use UMD also.

[davidhoff]

Great Darkstorme that really helps alot.  I think you and Tod pointed to the fact that a Non-wizard Rogue has to make a roll to use a scroll.  I'm curious what the DC is for that roll?  Do you know how it works?

Thanks again,

Davidhoff

[Hellblazer]

From what i remember in the nwnwiki, its 25+ the spell level. SO if you have a spell of level 5, it would be 30

edit: this should help

[davidhoff]

Ok, so 25 plus the spell level in your example of 5 would give a DC of 30.  So, the rogue rolls a 1d20 plus his modified UMD to beat the 30?  That seems fairly easy to beat to me; are you sure that's how it works?

[Hellblazer]

From what I remember when Brian was still alive, yes. Note that the 25 is only applicable if the server is set to hard core rules. I don't think it is.

Checking with sil to see what it is.

Okay well after testing.. I can't tell all the scrolls I have used that were not usable by bard was within her umd range and didn't return a roll. I'm guessing that the fact she has 25 in UMD.. is the cause of that. I can always try with feh to think of it, so i will try now.

Re-edit: In normal setting on an other server it still gave me the dc of 25+spell level

[Frances]

Ok, so 25 plus the spell level in your example of 5 would give a DC of 30.  So, the rogue rolls a 1d20 plus his modified UMD to beat the 30?  That seems fairly easy to beat to me; are you sure that's how it works?

That's how it works.  It's not as easy as you think.  Suppose you have a UMD of 20 in your example.  You'd have a 50/50  chance of successfully using a 5th level scroll.  There is no taking 20 in reading scrolls.

Using the scroll will drop you out of stealth, if you're hiding.  I'm pretty sure that if it's an offensive spell, it will drop you out of invisibility, regardless if you successfully read the scroll.

I haven't tested this in a long time, but I once had a ranger/rogue.  Ranger scrolls went from automatic to using UMD when I put 1 point in UMD (which meant the scrolls were useless until I had at least 5 points in UMD, then only 1 in 20 chance).  I'm not sure how wizard/rogue would go, but this would be good to know before you pick up those rogue levels.

[davidhoff]

I was reading something in the online bioware forums that said that a wizard/rogue, where the wizard has a specialized school, can never use a scroll from his prohibited school (no mater how high his umd is).  Can anyone tell me if this is how it works in Layonara?

[Chazzler]

Yes, it is as so.
If you are a say an abjurer wizard, you can't use scrolls like: Raise Dead and so on, I think Pibemanden can confirm this much to his dismay

[davidhoff]

Yes, but I don't think Pibemanden has any umd ranks.  So, I just wana confirm whether a wizard/rogue (or a wizard that has umd) can ever use scrolls from his prohibited school with his umd skill.  From what I read, it sounds like no matter how high that character's umd is, they can never use scrolls from their prohibited school.  Is this really how it works *sighs*?

[HooD!uM]

just to let you know from my past experiance...if your a cleric/rouge you will roll on a d20 to use a scroll even if its a cleric scroll...

[miltonyorkcastle]

Is this really how it works?

I'm afraid so. No way to get around the "prohibited school" bit for wizards.

[cbnicholson]

As a rogue /Wizard I can tell you that for Wizard scrolls, Ben doesn't make any sort of roll.  For all others he rolls against his umd.

[davidhoff]

Thanks all for the info.

Cbnicholson, you say Ben "rolls against his UMD" for all non-wizard scrolls.  Could you please give me an example of what you mean by "rolls".  I thought that a wizard/rogue never rolls his UMD, but rather, for each five ranks of his modifed UMD he is allowed to use scrolls up to a certain value (there's a table for this in Wiki based on every five ranks of UMD and whether the item is restricted by class, race or alignment).  Please also refer to Darkstorme's post below.  For example my understanding of the way it should work for the wizard/rogue is as follows:

Wiz/Rogue has 5 raw ranks in UMD, plus gloves that give him +4 UMD, and a charisma of 12 (one modifier); so his modified UMD is 10; he looks at the chart and finds out for class restricted items he can use items with a maximum value of 20,000; so as long as the value of the scroll is under 20,000 he can use it, but anything over he can not use it.  No rolling of anything.

Can you tell me if something different is happening to with Ben?

Thanks in advance,

Davidhoff

[cbnicholson]

My mistake, you and Darkstorme are correct.  What I meant was there is no chance of failure for wizard scrolls.  As for clerical scrolls, hmm..I've failed a umd check on clerical scrolls after lvl 6 with a umd of 20..so I'm trying to recall if there was an actual roll or not..To be honest I never understood how it worked exactly myself, but your explanation covers it.