Dice Bag Etiquette

[DMOE]

Just a gentle reminder to people that if a character is RPing something and you feel your character would make a dice bag check in response then please wait for the character RPing to inform you OOC in some way what your character will have discovered, if anything.
 
  Also I would ask people put some thought into the reasoning behind difficulties they set for such checks and also to who is making it.
  For example: If it is to spot a change in your body for some reason...New scar...Pregnancy...whatever, then someone who knows you well will find it much easier to spot than someone you've met twice.
  Obviously people will always have differing opinions in what difficulties should be but a little thought goes a long way!

[Chongo]

Is it cool to spam *str check* to all the ladies in Hlint before initiating conversation?

Because I personally think this is as cool as it gets.



 

[LynnJuniper]

THANK YOU DMOE.

I would like to add my own two True:

If someone in an RP situation be it Player or quest induced. Please PLEASE (and you may not agree with me) do the following

For example:
GM[tell]: Roll spellcraft
Character A (Who recieved tell and is a mage): *sc check*
Random Character B: *sc check*
Random Character C: *sc check*
Random Character D With no ranks in spell craft: *sc check*

Please please monitor yourselves and your rolls. Are you rolling because you thought it was a good idea or because you saw someone else do it?

[Eight-Bit]

People want attention, Rhynn, and dice rolls on GM quests are the closest thing to a lottery we have here. Other than rolling for loot, which is the closest thing we have to a lottery here. Or finding an emerald in a mystery mineral which is the closest thing we have to the lottery here. Or finding some great loot, which is the closest thing we have to the lottery here.

In conclusion, Layonara is a diverse place with a rich heritage and culture.

[solarina]

Chongo - 1/10/2007  4:14 PM

Is it cool to spam *str check* to all the ladies in Hlint before initiating conversation?

Because I personally think this is as cool as it gets.



 

that made me laugh hehe.

[miasma_hemlock]

Um, Lynnjuniper, can I point out that dice rolls are not an intuitive thing?  There is no handbook for when and how they are supposed to be done and the only way to learn is by doing, and even then it's not really obvious if you're doing it right..  Add to that the general sense of confusion inherent to a quest (which is natural considering the amount of people who go on them) and the fear players have of missing a line of chat where a DM tells everyone to roll or something like that and it's just natural that if one person rolls their dice others will think they should to...  If for no other reason than for the fear of being told twice or seen as "slow"..  

Really, if you think about the nature of how groups work, can you blame the fourth person in your example for rolling their dice?  After all they see three others do it, so it's resonable to think the whole party is supposed to.  And sometimes that turns out to be the case anyway and if you don't roll the dm will have to ask you to, so unless you really have a good feel for how things work it can be very confusing.

And by the way, I've been playing since August and I still don't really get when or how rolls are supposed to be done and really only use them if directly told to by a dm or occasionally if another player asks and I understand why...  And I know that irritates people just as much since I'm always the one who has to be told to roll, which means you probably would not object to me since I don't roll the dice just because others are, but you WOULD probably object to the fact that the DM often has to ask me to roll when others seem to understand it's a situation where dice are to be rolled without being asked.  

[LynnJuniper]

It really not even so much the GM quest side of things. However there have been moments in Hlint say where my character would preform an illusion or a bard a song

They would emote what they were doing and then employ the proper check.

Only to be answered with people doing *nothing* in the way of RPING roll as well

Example:
*the bard preforms a small dance spinning and twirling gracefully* *perform check*

*perform check*
*perform check*
*perform check*

[miasma_hemlock]

Well..  I haven't seen anything like that, but that is kind of stupid, I admit...

But in a general sense I would hope experienced players have patience regarding excessive rolls because it's one of those things you can only learn by doing and watching (a lot).

[Jearick Hgar]

i actually agree with lynnjupiter a bit. but no so generally speakign about it. here's the situation that absolutly kills me, and it happens almost too often.


a rogue, a mage, and two fighters are walking through some old ruins. the Mage see's some runes and goes to investigate. as he's looking voer these runes, the Dm gives hims a tells aying "Lore check". the player rolls a Lore check. suddenly the rogue and the two fighters bust out a lore check, and they are just standin aroudn waiting a few yards away for th emage tog et down with whatever he's doin.

And i know this one gets annoyign from a DM's side. there's a rogue, a fighter, and a pally and they are in a giant cave, no oen has a torch, and they are stopped near a crack in the wall talkigna bout what they are gunan do next. the rogue is the closests to the crack so the DM ask the rogue to do a dex check cuz you plan on a monster grabbing them. they roll a dex check, and suddenly the pally and the fighter rollem too. *facepalm*

i dunno but just a pet peeve for me. if it a player all of a sudden busts out a check or save and i don't have a clue why, i don't roll, i'll also look in the cha tlog to see if there was ever even a mention for me to roll. cuz mroe than likely they are the only one supposed to be doing a roll toehrwise you'd know.

[Etinfall]

It comes down to a few things:

• People not knowing when exactly to make a roll (me)

• Each DM being a little different on how they like to use rolls (some don't ming random rolls. They can sort it out quickly, knowing who exactly to look at. I always prefer to have the GM ask, or make sure you emote why you are rolling.)

• And knowing your area of expertise. (ie... let the ranger roll the search check. Let the Bard or high lore roll for ...well, lore checks.)



My ranger has hardly any points in Lore, so I let others roll for it. Unless the GM specifically asks for EVERYONE or me personally to roll a check. It kinda bums me when a GM asks for a spot check, and my high spotting ranger rolls bad, just to be out rolled by the blind Giant wearing a welding mask. No consequences for failing.

[Milo]

It's usually a good idea to think through in a RP-perspective, not just rolling because someone will get a natural 20.

Also, since NWN doesn't distinguish between Lore(Toran's Paladins' Dirty Secrets) and Lore(Milara's Hobbies in His Spare Time), a Wizard's Lore check may differ from a Fighter's Lore check.

[LynnJuniper]

I think after Maev everyone knows the Toran's paladins. and Well spoken er..written both of you. I kind of like what I heard of PnP's way of doing it

Knowledge (Religion)
Knowledge (arcana)
Knowledge (etc)

isnt that how it was done? not to hijack the thread.

[DMOE]

Hey...It's my thread and you ain't hijacking it Lynn...I'm pleased to see this discussion come from it actually  

[IceDragonDuvessa]

From a DM perspective on a quest I generally prefer that you either tell me why you are rolling before hand or wait until I ask you to roll. Often people will see someone roll a spot check and then 10 more throw them to see the minute crack they are no where near... then they get angry when I don't respond to them. If I am not overwhelmed with searches and questions I usually send those persons something like.. you notice your boot is untied.

Another thing I tend to find irritating is I will ask someone to do a lore check.. they roll in public and get a 1. Joe metagamer sees the 1 and thinks man... we must be missing something with that bad roll and throws a lore too. Then I ask why the lore is being rolled and Joe says... I dunno... I guess I thought there was something to know.

Mostly it comes down to if you are rolling on something... know why you are rolling and have a good emote to go along with it. If you are supposed to have rolled and didn't someone will most likely let you know.

[Acacea]

Etinfall--There are certainly fields of expertise within different skills that make things move a lot more efficiently when used as a guideline. It's hard to do that when you don't know your companions, though. Acacea has an 'okay' spellcraft with her gear on, and I have used it heavily when on quests with strangers or people she just doesn't know well enough to properly judge abilities.
When she's with Connor, Eld, Brac, or any other caster she's traveled with enough to be confident in their abilities, she usually doesn't even bother to check, because she knows she is not catching anything that they didn't. She's also frequently the one that ends up tossing the underwear drawer or searching corpses, but if Triba in particular is around it's no contest. If someone else proves to have a good pair of eyes then she usually helps them out with spells or something.

Likewise when Acacea isn't around when her frequent companions find strange runes or markings, many lores are rolled and suggestions offered regarding who to take them to, and when she is there it's often simply brought to her. If another is present that she feels is just as competent or moreso, they both roll and compare notes...it's not arranged OOC that way, it just naturally happens when you travel with people enough. When you haven't traveled with them at all it is difficult to judge areas of expertise and so you usually will get several people trying to cover the same thing, which is also natural until it becomes apparent who is most skilled at it based on what they bring back.

Completely untrained checks that are player-initiated (yes even when emoted) can be dangerous, as a low roll when you have no experience at all in something can sometimes be as bad as rolling a 1 when you are trained, resulting in some bad fumbling that may or may not leave you with not only nothing to show, but putting a stick in the workings of everyone else doing the same thing. Luckily it's also kind of an in-character problem...if the blind half-giant is tromping all over the ranger's trail, then frankly the ranger can blame him for his failure!

(And of course there are expectations of expertise too...like just automatically asking the wizard for lore even if he might not have any ranks in it...you wouldn't even know, you just expect! That would be a fun character... a wizard with high bluff, no lore...)

[Hellblazer]

Etinfall - 1/11/2007  12:02 AM  • And knowing your area of expertise. (ie... let the ranger roll the search check. Let the Bard or high lore roll for ...well, lore checks.)

 FInaly someon who gives credit to what Rangers are good for hehe, Although im not that shaby with lore or other rolls, my dice usualy betrays me. But I agree that rolling without an emote to tell what you are rolling for, or just rolling because you saw one do it, and you imitate him for no reason has no sence.

[DMOE]

LynnJuniper - 1/11/2007  6:14 AM  I think after Maev everyone knows the Toran's paladins. and Well spoken er..written both of you. I kind of like what I heard of PnP's way of doing it  
  Knowledge (Religion)
  Knowledge (arcana)
  Knowledge (etc)  
  isnt that how it was done? not to hijack the thread.

 I really like it when it's done like that.  On Meira's Iron clad quest Muir could only get so far with a ritual because the rest was Arcane magic and her's is divine. She eventually had to ask for Arcane help to get it done.
  I mean yeah...the high level mage may have Spellcraft 30 and roll a Nat 20 but if the magic is divine then while they might get a good idea....Why would they totally understand it?  The magic is different otherwise everyone would be able to cast all spells so why would someone totally trained in the Arcane be able to totally understand divine magic they have no training in just because of a high roll?  A good idea yes...complete understanding no...
  Also actually makes each class useful regardless of level.

[Rayenoir]

The magic itself is not different.  The means to access it is.  A Bull's Strength spell is a Bull's Strength spell whether you tap the Weave yourself or need a deity's providence.  A high enough spellcraft would indeed understand, but there are some things that Divine can't touch that Arcane can, and vice versa even with the knowledge at hand of how to do so.

It's like knowing what to do with the nail you want to put through the board and not having a hammer to do it with.  

[Eorendil]

*focuses real hard and tries not to put his 2 truth in on the forms of magic and cross class/style understandings thereof*

    Ditto on what Ice said.  I don't want to leave anyone out but not all characters and classes or circumstances require for everyone to roll on a particular item and there's also the issue of manageability and the flow of the quest.  If you emote the action and are descriptive I'm bound to ask for the roll.

[Weeblie]

A solution for the excessive "you rolled so I want to roll too":

1. Enable "silent rolls" (i.e. "/o E trigger silent_check" or something like that... can't remember the exact line without being IG ).
2. Use self tells for rolls. (i.e. "/o E spot check" )

Only the DM will see your rolls then, so, the "he rolled, I want to roll too" thinking would not even be possible either!