Author Topic: Suggestion for ranger (Read 671 times)

Hellblazer · « **on:** April 02, 2009, 02:51:20 pm »

First of all thank you for the changes already made for the rangers, they are absolutly great at putting back the rangers into a whole class.

The only thing I would suggest now is actually something that would help this class and maybe any other class that is stuck with a long progression of spells levels and not necesserally having access to eschew.

Personally, I'd rather have one of the favored enemy taken out, probably the level 10 one, to a feat that would grant this.

Quote

Feat name: Woodlands knowledge.

The ranger after years of training and walking through nature, has developpe a connection strong enough with his enveironement to call upon natures power without needing a focus to cast.

Feat description: Grants spell casting without reagent for spells level 1 through 4.

I don't think it would be anything overpowering since all the other spell casting classes have already those options, and some of them (cleric) can actually use holy symboles for some of the higher level spells that enables them to forgo the selection of the eschew 3 feat. I know.. I know, rangers are not spell caster,.. let's not start that debate again!

Since Rangers are limited to four level of spells they can not get eschew 2, and taking off one favored enemy feat, is a good trade off I think.

lonnarin · « **Reply #1 on:** April 02, 2009, 03:04:45 pm »

I'd personally rather keep the favored enemy. Only a very few ranger spells required components, barkskin/sheath and polymorph off the top of my head, and I rarely use those as it is.

Lynn1020 · « **Reply #2 on:** April 02, 2009, 03:29:17 pm »

I would want to keep the favored enemy.

Hellblazer · « **Reply #3 on:** April 02, 2009, 03:30:42 pm »

there is a few that needs it here is the list

Grease
Woodland Sheath
Sleep
Neutralize Poison
Freedom of Movement
Stoneskin

they represent roughtly 18% of the available spells of the rangers and a few of the most important ones too.

And a few of them is actually quite important. If you take freedom of movement for example. You need one strip of twisted leather per spell casting, that cost a fortune at the trader or need to be an expert crafter to make them.

Quote from: Lynn1020

I would want to keep the favored enemy.

Alright, then what would you see the trade off with, if there had to be a trade off?

Considering that favored enemy only gives you a +1 dmg and +1 to taunt listen and spot that you receive for that foe. Versus having a feat that would prevent you to have to carry reagents. I think it is a good trade off.

First on the lag of the reagent, knowing how topaz dust is needed, and twsited leather strip and the others. Second if you plan your feat ahead of time, the foes you will meet the most often, you will already have taken them as favored enemy before that one.

Dorganath · « **Reply #4 on:** April 02, 2009, 04:12:48 pm »

Can I get a show of hands how many Rangers there are that have taken Eschew I?

Lynn1020 · « **Reply #5 on:** April 02, 2009, 04:14:58 pm »

I do not mind the components

Hellblazer · « **Reply #6 on:** April 02, 2009, 04:22:13 pm »

Eshew one only covers grease, woodland sheath, sleep and neutralize poison, so really not that useful beside neutralize poison. But it's when it comes to neutralize poison, freedom of movement and stone skin, that's when it would really be useful.

ShiffDrgnhrt · « **Reply #7 on:** April 02, 2009, 04:24:18 pm »

Even though I never play my ranger any more, I never took eschew for him either, then again, I hardly thought about it

Hellblazer · « **Reply #8 on:** April 02, 2009, 04:30:16 pm »

Quote from: lonnarin

I'd personally rather keep the favored enemy. Only a very few ranger spells required components, barkskin/sheath and polymorph off the top of my head, and I rarely use those as it is.

would I have the possibility not to have to run after the spell component, yet again (already do it for my other classes that do not have eschews taken at the moment) I would use those spell a lot more myself.

Woodland sheath being much better than the barkskin casted from the helmet. neutralize poison able to take the disibilating effect away at the same time, which a bandage can not do. Freedom of movement being able to move freely through the things that are casted at you or from the druid/clecir of your group that always forget to prepare the spell or can't due to number of spell limitation. Or just being able to walk through the darn swamps without being slowed down. stone skin, well once again, being self sufficient without relying on a mage who always forget the poor rangers.

All have very good reason to being used by rangers.

Lord of the Forest · « **Reply #9 on:** April 02, 2009, 04:31:25 pm »

Playing a ranger for more than 4 years now I think and I don't mind the use of components at all and I would not the need of no components and sacrifice Favored Enemy. Favored Enemy is something only granted to rangers and is part of something a ranger focused his/her training about. Also keep in mind you need 5 different FE to actually make Bane of Enemies choosable on Epic levels. So one would need at least 25 ranger levels before getting that feat. Just to mention a slight drawback if one would sacrifice FE for not needing any spell components any longer.

The question if a spell is really necessary always depends on ones char. Dor never really used Freedom as a spell given what the spell grants you it is worth a little True here and there. Some spells also were changed for rangers so they would not need a certain item. Bless was made to Ranger's Valor and does not require a holy symbol anymore. While some certainly follow a diety not every ranger has to and why wear something you would not ICly?

Well, it is another matter with other spell components, like birch bark or topaz dust. Twisted leather strip is about fine as well. Rangers more or less need a "focusing object" for the one or other spell. Even though you did not want to bring up the issue that rangers are not really spellcasters. Well they are not. The spells only help them little to survive better or fade into shadows and would not focus all too much on how to avoid using spell components.

Well, just my two cents as a ranger for more than 4 years already.

Hellblazer · « **Reply #10 on:** April 02, 2009, 04:37:04 pm »

Don't get me wrong.. i am not saying to take Favored enemy out of the mix. I am saying to replace the one you get at level ten by this feat. All the others favored enemy would still be there.

I appologize if you guys thought I was asking to replace the complete feat of favored enemy by that one. I was just talking of a specific level of FE

Quote from: Lord of the Forest

Playing a ranger for more than 4 years now I think and I don't mind the use of components at all and I would not the need of no components and sacrifice Favored Enemy. Favored Enemy is something only granted to rangers and is part of something a ranger focused his/her training about. Also keep in mind you need 5 different FE to actually make Bane of Enemies choosable on Epic levels. So one would need at least 25 ranger levels before getting that feat. Just to mention a slight drawback if one would sacrifice FE for not needing any spell components any longer..

How would that be different that learning to cast those spell without component, through training and time spent within nature?

Also, how many rangers do you know who actually made past level 21 beside emy, your char and rodlin? That are still active and not perm and actually took that epic feat?

lonnarin · « **Reply #11 on:** April 02, 2009, 04:37:06 pm »

Now ranger feat: Hide in plain sight, ala D&D 3.5 would be nice...

orth · « **Reply #12 on:** April 02, 2009, 04:37:40 pm »

Eschew I will cover all Ranger castings as of the next update.

miltonyorkcastle · « **Reply #13 on:** April 02, 2009, 04:46:43 pm »

Wow, orth. That was easy. Stop being so cool. You're making the rest of us look bad.

Hellblazer · « **Reply #14 on:** April 02, 2009, 04:56:05 pm »

Thanks Orth

Lord of the Forest · « **Reply #15 on:** April 02, 2009, 05:04:04 pm »

Quote

Also, how many rangers do you know who actually made past level 21 beside emy, your char and rodlin? That are still active and not perm and actually took that epic feat?

Well how many chars go straight ranger?

There are some close to epicness. There are just not as many rangers around as other classes, always keep that in mind.

And nope, I did not get you wrong about replacing just one FE level but as I already said in my post above *points up* It will delay Bane of Enemy by 5 levels as you only get a new FE once every 5 levels and you need 5 FE for that nifty feat ^^

But well, this issue is resolved now anyway

Hellblazer · « **Reply #16 on:** April 02, 2009, 05:09:37 pm »

Quote from: Lord of the Forest

Well how many chars go straight ranger? There are some close to epicness. There are just not as many rangers around as other classes, always keep that in mind.

And nope, I did not get you wrong about replacing just one FE level but as I already said in my post above *points up* It will delay Bane of Enemy by 5 levels as you only get a new FE once every 5 levels and you need 5 FE for that nifty feat ^^

But well, this issue is resolved now anyway

I think the main reason why rangers were multiclass was to cover some of the downside that the rangers became in NWN vs PNP. Or to go to an epic class that needed it. IE Arcane Archers.

But yes, that issue is delt with now

Hellblazer · « **Reply #17 on:** April 02, 2009, 05:16:19 pm »

Quote from: orth

Eschew I will cover all Ranger castings as of the next update.

Orth will that change be retroactive to those who already took eschew 1 but with an other class? Or will it be specifically for those that take eschew 1 while leveling up as a ranger only?

What I mean by that is this. As an Example I'll take rain. He is a ranger,wiz,AA. And has already taken eschew 1. I took it while leveling him as a wizard. Will that cover all his spell casting of Ranger?

orth · « **Reply #18 on:** April 02, 2009, 05:25:02 pm »

Any Ranger who has Eschew I and has 14 or more Ranger levels will be able to cast any spells that are Inate level 4 or less (even if they're from their Wizard spell book for example). There's no way to differentiate which class made the casting. Yes it works for characters who already have taken it.

Hellblazer · « **Reply #19 on:** April 02, 2009, 06:21:08 pm »

That's wonderful, but just to make sure. A ranger of level 11 that has the three spell level already in bank, will he be able to take the feat, or will the feat only be availalbe at level 14?