Racial issues Rp

[Varka]

I saw a post again about sub races and why they have been closed. And if my interpretation is correct (and I do NOT say that it is) players hates it but why is it closed?
I was about to make a really subjective post but deleted it and thought I make it from a different point of view.

Earlier I made a few posts about drow (and about how much I love them ) but now I will take the discussion one step further.

The main question will be:      Racial issues Rp’ed on Layonara.

First a hit right in the face for every single out there: Everyone should tighten their belt and play “Racial issues” better.
I will quickly say Layonara IS THE best RP place I have seen and people are rping good but can we not make it better? Should we not try to aim higher instead of accepting the level we are on now?

No matter if I see a sunelf, human, drow, assimar, giant, tiefling etc. Everyone is holding hands in Hlint and are good friends because:
-   “We are dragoncalled”
-   By character submission some adds a few lines explaining fore example why they accept drow or even humans (thinking of Grey Elves)
-   And there are more excuses.

“Race issue” is something almost everyone avoids and tries to come easy around and why? Simple because it creates conflict and who wants that?
Further as none really are playing racial issues “why should I do it and have a lot of trouble” you think – and that is exactly the problem.

Yes, Layonara should of course be first of all about having fun…but the world was created with different races which have racial issues and LORE describes it perfectly.  Everyone should play after those rules in my opinion instead of denying them or come up with excuses. And that brings me to subraces.

People tend to build a character where you combine race/sub race and class which gives you “static/ physical” advantages. (People tend to). Sunelf/wizard or Giant/fighter.
Mostly people forget that by choosing a sub race - along comes RP disadvantages but none are playing them and why should they? These disadvantages are something “non physical” meaning (and let me try so explain it) none can control if you play by the rules, or a player will not be punished for not following the common ways a race/culture thinks…. (And I am sure there are better explanations out there and LOWER XP IS A FAR TO WEAK DISADVANTAGE).

That brings me to my subjective statement here:
People/players until now have not been good enough playing these disadvantages meaning that Layonara has been flooded with sub races. And the only way for The Team to balance it out is to block these submissions because we -  the players have “in some way” actually failed.

Would everyone be better at playing racial issues, I would estimate new players would after playing their drow for 2 weeks drop it (at least a bigger part) because it is way too hard…and submit another PC.



Something totally different:

If you believe your race, stats, knowledge of language, level, items or background (coming from another dimension) is something that makes you character special. Then you are wrong.

It is the RP and effort you put into it.

[Falonthas]

one thing i have noticed is that besides the dragoncalled perming out  several that i have known have recently,the new people are playing the tensions somewhat more
and new people i mean new characters
the new people coming around hlint arent used to being near a drow or a half giant or a tielfling and as such are doing very well with their fear and distrust and even downright hatred of such
in time all the dragoncalled will pass and then race tensions will be at their peak for there will be no reason for the human to trust the halfling he sees or the dwarf trusting the elf

without the reason of the greater purpose of the dragon to shape their views to an extent the world will revert back to humans with humans and dwarves with dwarves except for those few that are considered to be heroes or found in the tavern just passing through before their next journey

in my view i see the inital chapters of the inn at high moon
the locals distrust the adventurers but tolerate them cause of the coin they spend
but they will never call them friend

welcome to Dungeons & Dragons at its finest

[CHAzz]

to be honest, Iago has only encountered a few who have reacted to his obvious heritage, much less than I was expecting.  There has been a couple of individuals who have approached him seemingly only to point out that he is what he is.  There was one lady who refused to have anything to do with him, which was fantastic, and there was another lady who seemed more than a little interested.  Which would be funny if it turns out those most accepting of him are the folks he is desperately trying to avoid.

There are those who are making an effort, and there are also those who's character concepts or travels have given them a broader view.  One of the biggest challenges is remembering that the PC's are not the NPC's.  By definition an adventurer is going to have more of a wide-angle lens than say the local peasantry, who aren't going to really understand what goes on a continent away, or even care in the first place.  They are the ones who are going to blame everything on foreigners, and incedentally those adventurer types who always stir up trouble (not to mention they hang around with all sorts of strange folk).  Adventurers tend to be a bit more open minded because they have to be.  It's the foxhole mentality, the people you quest with are the ones who are going to be keeping you alive until the cleric arrives with the potions and spells.  If you can't accept them, then how can you expect them to accept you?  Without some level of trust inherint in the adventurer community no one is going to be heading out into the Goblin Wastelands anytime soon.
 Does this mean that everyone should be welcomed with open arms the forst time they wander into town? certainly not.  What it boils down to is a dramatically shorter time limit on mistrust of a stranger.  The other adventurers will accept someone fairly quickly, whereas the townsfolk might never do so.

[Polak76]

Good post Varka, and I totally agree with your statement.  I've been battling with this argument for ages but poeple still seem to mingle too nicely which seems unrealistic in a multi-racial environment.

Anyway I'm staying out of this one.  I've commented far too many times about these issues.  

Cheers,
Polak76

[miasma_hemlock]

I'm as guilty as anyone of not playing tensions from what race people are and it's honestly too close to real life for me to do so.  I know it's part of the game and I don't say others shouldn't do it if they want to (although it makes me really uncomfortable when they do) but I am simply not interested in role playing that way and it just isn't fun for me.

Yes I know we're talking about elves and dwarves instead of Asian and Black but still people use terms and phrases that are very close to what I have heard in real life. So reprimand me all you want for ignoring that part of the game but I will not do it.

[Tanman]

Very well written post Varka, and it's something that I have been thinking all along. Layonara is not all about goodie goodie role play all the time. There *is* always going to be tension and that is what makes this world real, more than any other world.

I think once V3 and the new changes are in place those races like Drow and so forth will have the racial tension etc as the players behind them would understand how the Lore  works

[Hellblazer]

Well, I will only give my example here, Rain playes the racial issue on a diferent angle, He feels that the people should put them asside for the good of the people, to work all together, helping each others out. After all with the food going out and the cold getting stronger, do we realy need more hatred in between the races.
  He has been raised by his father an elf and his mother a human, raised to be kind and generous. Although some life events temprorarly took those traitsaway from him, they were always imbeded in his character, so much that even when he was stirken by amnesia he still worked toward promoting respect in between the races.
  So if you think that some people do not play the hate between the races, maybe you have to think that they play it the other way around.

[Tanman]

No matter if I see a sunelf, human, drow, assimar, giant, tiefling etc. Everyone is holding hands in Hlint and are good friends because:
- “We are dragoncalled”
- By character submission some adds a few lines explaining fore example why they accept drow or even humans (thinking of Grey Elves)
- And there are more excuses.

[Hellblazer]

it is not in m y character submission hehe.

[Tanman]

Still being RP no?

[Gunther]

I have to say that, due in part perhaps to the recent restrictions on races, when Gunther goes sauntering through Hlint there are some very obvious reactions from folks (usually jumping to the side of the road as Gunther goes blundering by).  I've been on for almost a year and a half now and I think these recent reactions are the only ones I've ever seen.  I wont lie, I'd like to play one of those liontaur things (cant recall what they're actually called right now and I havent seen one in months), but I think the restrictions have improved things in a roleplay sense.

[Hellblazer]

yes i'm still rping that this way.

[lunchboxkilla]

I on the other half have this "old school" type RPing. Celgar thinks all drow should die in horrible ways and when in a foul mood broods on ideas of hurting said drow. All other races he'll veiw with some respect till they do something down right evil.

I do feel that all drow sould have a hard way of living in layo.
There was the many attacks on hlint, the spellgard capture and 100's if not 1000's of peopel slaughtered duriung their occupation of spellgard.

There Was Kathrien that set celgar deeper into hate

Any old schoolers here will remember when Nuzzatch was a DM and sent hoards of drow after him after the first drow attack on hlint (well over 2 years If I remember..)


As i said I'm an old school D&D player any thing that isn't drow and looks closely humanoid and show some signs of being peacful will be liked. All else is fodder.

Just my 5 cents Canadian, 2.5 US.

[Hellblazer]

out side of character, i do agree that a race that is viewed as evil should realy have it hard, I'm sure that when I will create a new character, if its not from Rain's family, he will probably have the same views as the majority toaward the drow and all. Hum unless by the time i make it the drow can be picked up again.. then maybe i'll make one hehe.

[Tanman]

And so it should be!

And likewise Drow should feel the same way. Its what gives more realism to the world. And its not old school. It should be *how* its RP.

lunchboxkilla - 11/22/2006  3:42 PM

I on the other half have this "old school" type RPing. Celgar thinks all drow should die in horrible ways and when in a foul mood broods on ideas of hurting said drow. All other races he'll veiw with some respect till they do something down right evil.

I do feel that all drow sould have a hard way of living in layo.
There was the many attacks on hlint, the spellgard capture and 100's if not 1000's of peopel slaughtered duriung their occupation of spellgard.

There Was Kathrien that set celgar deeper into hate

Any old schoolers here will remember when Nuzzatch was a DM and sent hoards of drow after him after the first drow attack on hlint (well over 2 years If I remember..)


As i said I'm an old school D&D player any thing that isn't drow and looks closely humanoid and show some signs of being peacful will be liked. All else is fodder.

Just my 5 cents Canadian, 2.5 US.

[Vyris]

I think we've already done this, a few times.

most recently here http://www.layonaraonline.com/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=29635&posts=191&start=1

5 pages of it.


Vyris

[Pseudonym]

But Vyris, if you take away the endless rehashing of old threads what am I going to do at work? (Other than work that is)

*goes off to contemplate starting a thread complaining about meta-gamers and power-levellers . . . or maybe one thanking the GM team . . . maybe a count to some arbitrary number . . . *

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

I agree with Varka on all of his points, but with Falonthas more strongly. We were Dragoncalled... But the Bloodwar has been over for six years, and the people of the world are already beginning to forget their struggle. The new adventurers, those seeking fame and fortune for whatever reason, have no singular bond to hold them together; their camaraderie stems from their own prejudices and relationships.

If a man were Dragoncalled during the Bloodwar, then he could be afforded some small measure of respect and perhaps trust, even if he is a Drow.

Nowadays, any man on the street is as suspect as the next, be he human, elf, dwarf, or raving Pyrtechonian.

Note: This was typed up WAY earlier in the day. I jsut never hit submit. So I'll edit it soon, in ll liklihood.

EDIT: Yeah. Even Pyyran has his excuses for not hating Drow on sight, though he's grown to heartily distrust them... He's an accepting fellow, and had never experienced yadda yadda yadda. It goes on, it's been hashed and rehashed and beaten like a dead horse for glue. Same deal with other races. Et cetera.

The thing is that there will always be people who don't want to RP the racial deal, for reasons that various people will find acceptable or total cop-outs. (Real life frustration and laziness, to name examples in order.)

And then there'll be people who do.

RP wins out, even if a particular player doesn't want to RP a certain issue. If they love to RP other things, they'll stick around. The ones who don't want to RP in general, leave. Eventually.

[Laldiien]

Given certain limitations (No PvP) we are sort of forced to get along. Want to discuss true RP? Let's look at a typical day in Hlint:
  A group of people are milling about the Benches. A Drow wanders close to the gate. THUNK! (The meaty sound of an arrow landing in a sternum) THUNK! THUNK! "Thank Toran we stopped his crime spree!"THUNK THUNK THUNK!
  Race is skin deep, but you can be killed for it should some god demand it. If strict, unwavering RP is being called for, then GM quests are going to get lonely 'cause, really, would you want to group with a Mistie? or a Toranite? I think those two gods are unfriendly to everyone. Now, what do we do with a Corathite? They're out there. Do we do as out god commands and smite the crapout of them when we learn of their alliegience? Well of course we do! We are all devout sorts that do as we are commanded.
  Meh. I don't want PvP. I don't want to hate someone on site just because they look different. I don't want to forgo going on a quest because I know a drow or a Mistie or a (Insert non-specific yet reviled race/deity combonation here) will be there. You want to play the hate card and shun those who your god would not approve of, groovy. I might be one. But play it the way you called it or don't post saying how awful everyone's RP is. Since you can't kill 'em, avoid 'em. I hope the middle of the Blood Desert is a comfy place.

[Weeblie]

This topic seems to come in waves. Once a few months or so. I should have learned by now to have pretyped answers.

For people who has time, here's some reading:

http://www.layonaraonline.com/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=29635