Layonara 3.21.2 Patch Release

[orth]

• Improve player logging in a bit more to not spike the server with lag
• Updated some creatures
• Fix mining picks never breaking
• Removed circle kick from shield guardians
• Ignore sitting when the player does a *hesitate(s)*
• Respect tool feedback flag setting
• Fix looting corpses not reporting to the party
• Couple more performance improvements

A Note on Player Inventory

There's still quite a few people who hurt the other community members by carrying so many items.  This is even more critical when you yourself crash mid combat with a party, because when you log back in, your party members in combat are suddenly going to spike in lag.

I find it interesting that the problem is joked about in some circles and we've increasingly attempt to improve it, but the simplest way is to just ask players to not carry so much.  Do you really need seven dragon scales? Do you really need a box of aloe on your player? A bag of something is no improvement just in case you thought it helped. There are plenty of storage options.

I'm starting to consider per item surcharges on portals to help promote leaner inventories, any other suggestions are quite welcome.

Cheers!

[jrizz]

I am all for anything to get people to cut down on inventory. Something that might help is to answer a couple of questions:
 
 1. How many items is considered a good inventory?
 
 2. Do stacked items count as one or as many as in the stack?

[Lareth]

Leaner inventory would be a great thing, but I would say this, for the lower level characters this may cause some hardship, as they're often the ones who cart around boxes of aloe, silk, etc. to trade for coin or equipment.  Also they're often the ones who can't afford housing or other storage options.

But I'll try my best to trim inventory

[Chazzler]

Leaner inventory would be a great thing, but I would say this, for the lower level characters this may cause some hardship, as they're often the ones who cart around boxes of aloe, silk, etc. to trade for coin or equipment.  Also they're often the ones who can't afford housing or other storage options.

But I'll try my best to trim inventory

My thoughts exactly

[orth]

The lower levels are not a problem.

Of the Top 40 players in player inventory, there is 1 player who is less than level 12.

[orth]

Stacked items only count as 1 item.

Players should try to target 300 or less items on their person.

[jrizz]

I for one would like to know if my PC has too much in his inventory. I try to keep it trim but maybe my idea of trim is not trim at all. So I am comfortable with being called out if I am in that top list.

[orth]

A way to tell yourself is based on a character export and the file size of your character's bic

Go into your NWN options screen and you'll see a Save Character button.  Click that button and in your localvault subdirectory of nwn you'll see the file (for example plenariusashaley.bic) , then just look at how big that file is.  If it's over 600kb , then you're pushing it.  A good target should be 400kb.

jrizz, none of your players go over 500kb.

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

In the wake of this, would it then be possible to make certain crafting supplies stackable?  Essences?  Vials?  Flasks?  Tanning Acids/Oils?  I would imagine for certain folks that's what takes up a fair share of their item list.  I know it does mine.

I mean we have milk stacking, and juice and brewing bottles, why can't other things?

[Dorganath]

The non-stackability of most CNR materials is by design, so that people carry and process only reasonable amounts at any given time.

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

well what about just for things like vials and flasks?  The juice bottles stack, so it's not like making vials and flasks the same would do much harm.  Would make tailoring easier...  Every time you use a tanning acid you get a new one...

[Hellblazer]

Also they're often the ones who can't afford housing or other storage options.

But I'll try my best to trim inventory

Oh that fact is also to anyone. Remember, one house per player if I remember correctly. What happens when you have 6 characters, and that most of them craft? Then there is the whole debate about allowed time to play vs real life, and time it takes to gather enough things to have a decent crafting run. There is also those that actually act as gatherers. Gathering things for other players as their mean of making money.

Not every one can be so lucky as to have rental rooms either, as many of the people who runs those things are seldom around for starter. And secondly, with the new system of keys, those that runs rental rooms houses as a caretaker (not the house owners) can no longer make keys for new tenant, there for can't rent their rooms.

I know it was talked about in the past, and I know it was due to a server load that new houses were not made available to players, due to various reason as maps number, lag from loading, etc. But since you have worked on a system that spread loading time, and we continuously see new maps being sprouted, maybe it's time to add new houses too? Or maybe instead of making one area per player house. Make a community housing project? Many houses in the same area map, spread far enough that people couldn't hear normal chatter.

[Script Wrecked]

The non-stackability of most CNR materials is by design, so that people carry and process only reasonable amounts at any given time.

Is this having the desired intent?

Given that inventory volume is trivially extended, is having non-stackable items actually any sort of restriction?

Conversely, given that you can only carry a certain amount of an item with a reasonable weight (such as coal), if that item were made stackable, you'd still only be able to carry the same amount.

The only thing where there would be an exponential effect is the benefit from weight reduction by being able to place large stacks of heavy items into magic bags.

But for items that are comparatively light, the weight reduction benefit from being stackable wouldn't be so extreme. And there'd be the benefit of less items in inventories.

This is dependent, though, on the following being true:

Stacked items only count as 1 item.

I have been told the opposite as well.

Regards,

Script Wrecked.

[Hellblazer]

Stacked items only count as 1 item.

Players should try to target 300 or less items on their person.

Err in other discussion we were told that a stack was not counted as one item but every part of the item was counted at loading time. Or did we misunderstood?

/edit:

I have been told the opposite as well.

Regards,

Script Wrecked.

Bah script wreked was typing as I was

//re-edit

here is the post I think both Script Wreked and I are refering too

http://forums.layonara.com/424244-post14.html

[Gulnyr]

Since the number of items carried is only a problem on logging in, the question of crafting items seems tangent to the question and brings up a question of its own:

How is it that you are creating a large number of intermediate products (essences, tanning oils, shafts, bolts of cloth) and not using them to create finished products (potions, leather armor, bows, bandages)?

well what about just for things like vials
...
Every time you use a tanning acid you get a new one...

Do you keep them?  I know they have uses (even making tanning acid, if I remember correctly), but they're dirt cheap, so it's not so bad to pawn the ones you get and buy new ones when you need them.  No hauling around vials that way, so, whether singles or stacks, that's less stuff in your inventory.  

Conversely, given that you can only carry a certain amount of an item with a reasonable weight (such as coal), if that item were made stackable, you'd still only be able to carry the same amount.

I recall times when people would go mining and fill up their inventories, regardless of the maximum weight their characters' should carry, and slowly drag those poor little characters to the smithy.  That's one of the reasons the "follow" tool was removed, since it would cause super encumbered characters to "teleport" significant distances now and then to keep up with the runner they were following, but people did it without someone to follow often enough.  So I'm not seeing any benefit to making heavy, bulky stuff easier to haul.  There's really no reason coal or ore or logs or whatever should stack, anyway, except meta and OOC reasons.

I don't have any particular argument against stackable vials or tanning acid or similar craft things, but I also don't see any reason to have thirty or fifty at a time so stacks don't seem all that important.

[Hellblazer]

Some intemdiary products can not be purchased from traders. Essence of cure for one. So once you make them to plan in crafting, but you can't store them because you don't have a place to store them, you haule them. Then it goes back to find a way to store them. *Points up to his previous post* Most don't ahve the luxury to store I would dare say. So you are left of only craft what you plan to use immidiatly, But someone that has less time to play can not do that, so they haul.
 
 I might not please the team here and I appologize right ahead. But we have heard so many time to manage our inventory, which A lot of people do. But at the same time, it would be great if there was something to help us do that, IE having a store depot, more houses, bigger ox space? I don't know, but you can't always expect the players to do all the work with what they have. I am really and trully glad you decided to up the bank storage space and convert the crates to a more semetrical storage with bags and boxes. But the true problem lies in the lack of space to actually set crates down.
 
 So As I pointed up earlier, community house project is an Idea, or depot like warehouses, where you could have a set number of rooms that one could rent from a NPC, with a locked door, that could set a max number of crates. I know I can fit 28 crates in a regular room in Krador (check Lex'ors store room at 139 Krandor) Same thing could be easily done, and you would truly aleviate Hauling problems, without having the problem of keys not being copiable when the Owners doesn't play as often as they used to and leaving the house they want to rent rooms to other players through A caretaker.
 
 Any how
 
 1- Multiple houses in a single Area with enough spacing to prevent hearing talk channel chatter
 
 2- NPC driven warehouses, with multiple single locked door rooms that can be rented out directly from a npc that hands out one key. Where someone can place their crates to store their stuff. Since it's npc driven, if a player is found not to be playing anymore and the space is needed, the team would be free to take the stuff away.
 
 I'll make a formal suggestion with this in a moment.

[Gulnyr]

Some intemdiary products can not be purchased from traders. Essence of cure for one. So once you make them to plan in crafting, but you can't store them because you don't have a place to store them, you haule them. Then it goes back to find a way to store them. *Points up to his previous post* Most don't ahve the luxury to store I would dare say. So you are left of only craft what you plan to use immidiatly, But someone that has less time to play can not do that, so they haul.

Notice that the problem is not "people have a few extra items in their inventories" but "people have too many extra items in their inventories."  

Whether they can be purchased or not is irrelevant.  If a player has a limited window of playtime and no storage beyond the bank (which is larger now and a fine place to store a reasonable amount of stuff) and wants to craft, and if that character doesn't already have too many items in inventory, then making a few intermediate craft items now and logging in later to make finished craft items should not be a problem.  Five or ten temporary extra items in a well-maintained inventory is not a big deal.

Whether you have lots of time or little time to play, if you know overloaded inventories are a problem, then it is inconsiderate and idiotic to stock up fifty Essences of Cure on your character before gathering the supplies to finish the Cure potions.  If you've got ten Essences of Cure, don't make any more until you use those up.  Simple!  Plan for the end product, not the intermediate product, and gather accordingly.  Work in smaller batches and use the intermediate supplies you have before you make more and your inventory will not fill up with too much stuff.

[jrizz]

In addition to the above there are rooms for rent all over. I am sure the arms is not full.

[merlin34baseball]

ok... one of my characters has a lot... a lot of space... would it be alright for her to basically sell the floor space to set a crate down?

The door to where the crates would be is and always has been wide open so...

are the crates secure if you use the lock crate option?

My Thanks,
Merlin34

[Primalfear]

Notice that the problem is not "people have a few extra items in their inventories" but "people have too many extra items in their inventories."  

Whether they can be purchased or not is irrelevant.  If a player has a limited window of playtime and no storage beyond the bank (which is larger now and a fine place to store a reasonable amount of stuff) and wants to craft, and if that character doesn't already have too many items in inventory, then making a few intermediate craft items now and logging in later to make finished craft items should not be a problem.  Five or ten temporary extra items in a well-maintained inventory is not a big deal.

Whether you have lots of time or little time to play, if you know overloaded inventories are a problem, then it is inconsiderate and idiotic to stock up fifty Essences of Cure on your character before gathering the supplies to finish the Cure potions.  If you've got ten Essences of Cure, don't make any more until you use those up.  Simple!  Plan for the end product, not the intermediate product, and gather accordingly.  Work in smaller batches and use the intermediate supplies you have before you make more and your inventory will not fill up with too much stuff.

Well I will answer you an answer as a crafter and gatherer, heavy on both side of the playing field for having 5 out of my 6 chars that craft and gathers.

Making a crafting run of 10 items is a total waste of time. Ask any one who craft on a regular basis, with a limited amount of playing time, they will plan their time to gather then craft when they have a reasonable amount of things to have a good crafting run, because they want to be able to do other things with their playing time but run around for ten bits of that, and ten bits of this to make some items. Then run again to gather more right after finishing. People want to see result in their crafting, and when you work in small amount, it takes literally months to see. Even now, when you have little time it takes that amount of time. Now you are saying that when we have the time to play, we should simply not gather and not craft due to not carrying to many things?( i know pushing it, but it is almost that) That is one not fair for those people, nor is it anything practical at all.

ok... one of my characters has a lot... a lot of space... would it be alright for her to basically sell the floor space to set a crate down?

The door to where the crates would be is and always has been wide open so...

are the crates secure if you use the lock crate option?

My Thanks,
Merlin34

That's called renting rooms If the person you rent the space to sets the crate himself, he will be able to lock it.

// and yes as I was reminded over the game, posted with the wrong account *grumbles*