a problem with the new resting...

[Skywatcher]

Perhaps should be noted that this, of course, may be so for levels 20+ only. Doesn't make much difference to a lot of other people. Just as an aside.

Of course this is true.  The effect increases with level since the number of spells and abilities stops going up at level 20 for most things.  So even though buffs last longer the combat spells don't increase in number so the combat effectiveness over time will decrease will level increase.  Of course this is a gross generalization.  I am just trying to characterize the impact on a global scale.  The bottom line is that the combat pace and effectiveness over time is lower now due to this change and that should be well understood by everyone.

[AeonBlues]

*does a 180* and that no magic zone is mad XP for a place where there is not much point of resting.

AeonBlues and his shifty eyed looks

[Olme]

A way to rationalize this in a roleplay sense might be to consider this analogous to a natural process/affect of aging.

Your youth where one gains rapid knowledge and abilities (relatively quick leveling at lower levels) is past.

Your knowledge and abilities are still increasing, albeit now at a slower pace  but now their are other issues: You just can't keep up at the physical pace you used to as a youngster..or you can but not but only at 'chosen moments' , that is, for shorter durations.

So while indeed you get smarter, wiser, and indeed more powerful.. there are physical tradeoffs.

People make this adjustment every day, mostly unconciously as they adjust to their physical limitations.

In real life most everyone wishes they had they had the physical stamina of their youth back to go along with years of knowledge gained through life experience.

[Stockholm]

LoL.. I played for about 8 hours yeastarday with this new system and I didn't even noticed that the rest time have changed

I admitt that I spend all that time in the dead magic area zone so that might have been the reason though..:rolleyes:

First of all I wanna say thanks to Chongo who have made this place.

How cool is it not with a party of non spellcasters, Fighters, monks, rogues and so on.. can actually explore on their own whithout relying on buffs and the mages weirds, wails and claps. Up till now the frontliners much so have been cleaning up the scraps after said spells.

finally fighters in high lvls can team up whithout a spellsinger and go places that doesn't mean instant death but still are fun and a challange..

I love the mountain area with the big giants..

The pirate inspired area are cool obviosly designed for rogues :p

The spellsingers have all the rest of layo where they can do the same..

[Falonthas]

it also brings into play the aspect that spell casters have to rely on the other members of the party

in all the PnP and novels and pretty much everything having to do with this game
mages are the studious frail types that pray they have a strong friend with them when their spells are depleted to protect and make sure they last till the next campsite

and the age factor comes into play as well
yes your more powerful but your also if your that high of level and human pushing 60 plus since even another 18 years have passed since the end of the war,though far from decrepit ,use the aging thing
we dont have an aging script or i think this wouldnt even come into play,but even the arch mages had backups for the times when they had exhausted their spells
front liners have their own small duration buffs that can counter the advanced time and if they dont what did they do during before their friend were such glowing tank creators

even elminster had contingency plans for situations because he didnt let things rely on chance
 now he never walked layo but the same general tactic can be applied

learn to use that crossbow you have gathering dust in your chest
find choking powder and fire bombs and other nice sneaky tricks to aid your fellows till the next campsite is found and the perimeter is set

[Leanthar]

"....In a quest you have a GM deciding where it makes RP sense for you to rest and the rest timer can effectively be an hour or more depending on the situation. It really makes you consider what you really need most for each situation and plan for contingencies. Much more challenging...."
 "....I have found many times after a trip of adventuring realizing that the pace had been so fast that we hardly had time to talk or make anything of the adventure than just a grind...."
 "....I think it promotes better RP, and makes Layo more consistent with PNP...."
 "....Anyone who has played D&D in a PnP setting might remember how the length of time a caster had to rest/study/pray was dependent upon how many spells and of what level they were. The metric our group used was 15 minutes per spell level. So 4 1st level spells or 1 4th level spell could be regained in an hour. So what would happen is the whole group would make camp and hang out while the casters got their mojo back. And yeah, game time would move forward while we did, so it was a choice to be made. Also, combat buffs usually lasted for what? One battle? No roaming the countryside with 20 buffs at the ready...which brings me to another point.
 The first time you go somewhere, you get prepared as much as you can and get ready for trouble early. After going a couple of times, you learn that you don't really need your buffs right away, and in fact you can go with only a few (or none) until certain spots. Things like this can elongate the usefulness of casters even if the durations don't overlap with the rest timers...."
 
Those comments right there are why I approved the changed and indeed wanted the change. RP, immersion, and strategy should be a major key when playing. My 2 cents.

[aragwen]

I just want to say personally I love the new timer system.
 And it does affect way more people than just casters.
 
 For example, every person wearing a helmet of armor is now affected as at higher levels the helmet wont protect you the whole time. Jacc being a multiclass, his own protection spells (ranger-10 and sorc-8 ) wont even last his rest cycle. His special Arcane Archer abilities can be used way less.
 
 But I still love it, why? Cause it challenges us to improvise. You have to actually think and plan now. Many ways to improvise. Another example, how many of you have run fully buffed from Arnax to Mitirix cause you know you can rest at the end and it does not matter that you waste spells in Arnax. How many of you have entered a room fully buffed only to see no danger inside. We do this purely cause it is easy to rest and rebuff.
 
 The rest timers will make people think and not just make magic easy to get and use. Someone mentioned an example of having to wait to rest before being able to dispell. I love that, cause you dont have the spell memorised, you should have to wait to memorise it. Or perhaps you should have one memorised just in case.
 
 Now I speak of improvise, how can one improvise. Cast the spells relevant to the situation, always keep emergency spells handy. Use scrolls, potions, wands. Those things never get used much but could be all you need to cover you till your next rest.
 
 Just my two cents.
 
 PS: Need potions? Call Raven or Jacc

[Odranoela]

I don't play a caster on Layonara. I suck playing casters, my thing is the rogue class, however I just have to:

When the servers went back up, on the day of the update, and we went exploring with ket, wren, beasty, krys, clarissa, rose and some other folks I started noticing something was different.

We all noticed the dead magic zone but decided to explore anyway.
It was a totally new experience for me.
The first trip wasn't long.

Our casters and clerics became bummed feeling somewhat useless, but the thing is they just didn't adjust. After that trip, we returned to the Crossroads. On the second trip, all we had were monks, fighters, rogues and barbarians..
[please correct me if there were casters there, but on the first trip we made north of the crossroads, I am certain we had not a single caster, only Hardragh I think, but he's multiclass]

Ironically, the fun began, because it was a really hard place, and we worked perfectly as a team. Everyone healing each other, we stopped to talk in firecamps several times, before I even realize there was a new Rest Timer and I didn't notice it because I was immersed on the roleplay we were having, and not thinking "Who should I ask for a stoneskin now?". Obviously people died, and SS's were lost, looters were constantly bugged to describe items in middle of the battle but that is just part of the game. It was the greatest layonara experience I had in a long time. In future trip, we had casters with us, and they did their job of healing, using bows and stayin' back. They probably had fun aswell.

Comparing this trip to the others I had, where wizards slaughter everything and we rest every 10.0001 minutes only to spend three minutes rebuffing everyone, I must say I thought I was on a different server.

This update and it's new rules/tweaks, you may not realize because you are thinking "I lost power, I am weaker now", are a HUGE blessing for some of us players. One thing that makes me think this way is one sad episode where I  had to witness and be a part of a gorup that should be friends arguin over who's coming on the trip or not, because "we might not have enough buffs"... Because of BUFFS... So not necessary.

Come on now, this will give you the chance of planning tactics and forming alliances to survive, you will actually feel the adrenialine rush and fear for your character's life, you will have to rethink your healing/ward methods it will improve greatly the RP, realism, immersion and it's still possible to hunt like crazy.

Yikes, this is too long already and I am tired, but please reconsider. I'm not saying anyone's opinion is wrong, and I'm definatly not trying to flame.
I'm sorry some casters feel nerfed by the new system, but in reality, it only brings good to the server and I thank the people who made the call.

Lino

[lonnarin]

When it takes 4 million xp+ and many dedicated months to level, then prolonging the time between the "xp grind crunch cycle" is just pure torture.  Now one could always say "well, you should be getting quest xp!"  Yes... good idea until one has a fulltime job and a 4 hour window of opportunity every night to actually play.  And whenever I look on the calendar for that 4 hour window, anything that is posted is "invite only" or "closed to new members".

Not a big fan of making the nigh impossible even harder.  Maybe when I was unemployed and had an extra 8 hours a day to invest into Layo... but now it's just even harder for me to roll an 18-ton xp boulder uphill.

Less resting means more downtime.  Time for RP perhaps, but I'd rather be encouraged to set aside RP-time when appropriate rather than forced.  I'd rather be able to just sit down after a long day at work and play the game than sit around chatting by a campfire for an extra 10 minutes/day.  Maybe some other people enjoy doing that... well, nothing was stopping them from doing that with the old 10 minute timer anyhow.  But the new rest timer is stopping me from having fun and playing in the style I would like to.  It eats up even more of my fun-time for mandatory down-time in the interests of people who could just be spending their own time chatting on their own accord.

As if misclicking the rest button and having to wait 10 minutes to try again wasn't annoying enough already.

[LynnJuniper]

but I'd rather be encouraged to set aside RP-time when appropriate rather than forced.

Amen. People shouldn't ideally be forced to RP. It should happen regardless. It should happen either way. It should happen in any situation. This is another reason I think that this may not have been the best of ideas, now that it has been brought up.

Example:  Before the rest timer was put in, Angela, Alantha, Storold, Val, Sallaron, Jacc , and Rhynn (forgive me if I missed anyone) took a trip out East to the Northern Reaches of the forest. In the middle of it all, without the rest timer telling us to, we put down a camp fire and decided , for then, it would be more fun just to RP. True, we were granted with a bit of an 'imprmptu' for doing so, but I don't think it was anyone's intentions


Then again, I don't agree with "XP rewards for good RP" or "The WL XP Bonk Stick" either for the same reason.

  I came here to RP.

I didn't come to RP because I was being forced to (or because I would get nifty rewards for it for that matter).

Anyone who needs special perks, or so much balance shot into the veins of the game that they need to be forced to Roleplay is, in my opinion [blunt] pretty much expendable and only dampening the spirit of the server anyway [/blunt]

[Xirion]

Lynn I share your oppinion. RP is fun, RP is good and RP makes most of the fun...but! But not all people may see it this way, some people maybe forced to do so, or rewarded for doing so. For the people who do so anyway it is a nice bonus and I dont see why this should be wrong. For the other people, well there are two possibilities and I think it is just a matter of time and one of the possibilities will happen:
1st: They discover the fun one can have while RPing around (I am an bloody optimist you knoiw)

2nd: They recognize that the server wants, forces and rewards RP but are not willing to RP but to fight and leave the server to find a better suiting one

In the end both possibilities, though the first one is obviously nicer, help to make Layo a btter place for those who love roleplaying.

Ofcourse it would be ideal if there would be no neccesarity to force or reward someone, but the there are no ideals. And it seems obvious that there is neccesary, I dont think this change would have had happened otherwise.

To lonnarin, I understand that aswell. I have two children and everyone who has kids can imagine that there is not too much time left.
I would have loved to join the plot Quest, but I had no time. I was curious about Darkstormes quest but had no time either amd there were some other quest I was not able to join... All the time I am playing here I tried every monday to join Pseudonyms stand alone quest and made it last monday for the first and maybe last time.
My playing time will decrease in  about two weeks even more and I will probably be under a 4 hour window.
We both should try to make the best of this time. Rping or adventuring. But I dont think you get these 4mill+ xp from soloing, do you? So have fun with the group you are travelling with maybe it is even more fun to RP during the adventures... find some nice tactics... So I will stop now because  maybe I am just to low in lvl to comment on it, but maybe this is a possibility.

[Chongo]

*does a 180* and that no magic zone is mad XP for a place where there is not much point of resting.

AeonBlues and his shifty eyed looks

Wow, you're still going...

1) It's not changing so you may want to get over it.

2) If anyone can show me on paper that this yields more experience then the standard Belinara areas where you are mass hasted and with spells, then I'll be impressed... because it's impossible.  Even with the feeling of great success in there, you're netting about one third of what you would in the same amount of time in a magic zone with the same CR.

[vgn]

So one major theme I see in many of the responses is:
"Why do we need forced RP with a rest timer? I like to set aside time to RP."

I think this basic thinking is the whole reason it was added. I know for some people the "game" is to kill as many things as you can, get as many resources, and get that XP to get up another level so you can do the same thing in a harder area. For Leanther though, he has said since the creation of this world, that it is an RP focused world and the game I just described above is not this game. You can play that game here to a degree, but it is not the game of this world.

The biggest problem I have with people who like to "set aside time to RP" is that is artificial and it does not make an immersive experience. I know I've run into this from both sides.

I'll log on with a character and chat someone up in town and suggest a trip for some resources or even just to beat back a population of monsters. I get an IC decline, often followed with a tell that goes something like, "Sorry this is my RP time, we'll go out another time."

Another time I may be actually out gathering or trampling some monsters and it seems like it's non-stop. I'm trying to type as fast as I can and people are running from screen to screen and encounter to encounter. By the time I finish typing something I erase it because the moment has long past. Any "break" is the short time it takes to rest and re-buff the party.

I personally feel the benefit of changing the rest timers is that maybe, just maybe, people will start to see that you can RP WHILE you adventure!! Just think to the best non-quest adventures you've had. I can bet that for the majority of you it was those times where you went out bashing or collecting CNR with a "good group" and you kept getting caught up stopping more than you had to or you found yourself walking a little bit more and above all you were typing and talking a lot more.

A few things I ask anyone who has problems with the new setup:
1. Walk. I know, it's simple, and to many it feels like you are moving through molasses since you've been in hyper-speed your whole life. You'll find though that while walking you can actually type and have a conversation with people, getting out more than a few words before the party has hopped another transition.
2. When you rest, pretend for just a few minutes that "resting" is not something that takes 15 seconds for your rest bar to fill up while you snore. As people have suggested, actually make camp. Does that mean you need a campfire? No. I'd personally prefer people to act according to the environment. If you are in a safe-ish place, then while not light up a fire, eat, chat a bit. If you aren't, then take turns watching guard. The guards can chat while the others sleep and then swap.
3. Get out more, not less. I see so many people who RP in towns and adventure outside of towns and never shall they cross. Towns are a great place to meet up and if all you feel like doing is chatting, great, go for it. But a lot of people here do like the adventure part of the game and knowing that doing 1 & 2 above will give you plenty of time to chat, perhaps head out of town a bit more often.

[LynnJuniper]

I agree with you vgn but I didn't exactly mean it like that. I mean that in a perfect world there shouldn't be reasons that we have to be forced or bribed into Roleplay in or out of adventure. On or Off quests. The fact that we do just makes me a bit grouchy =P

[Xirion]

You hit the point. 100%, nothing to add, thanks for that. Most funny adventures are fighting+rp, regardless of the xp gained the gold found or the items looted, no matter if you mine copper or platinum. And your PC would have heavy legs RL if they run the whole continent up and down (though while I am alone I do it)

 Thanks!

Lynn: Right aswell but this ,and I am sure you know that, will never be. Nothing is perfect, unfortunately.

[Skywatcher]

But it's not a perfect world and some people are tempted, like me, to just go go go when you can.  It's a goal oriented type thing I think.  I have personally tried to remember to slow down and it has not always been successful.  The good news for those who can remember and have disciplined themselves to go slower is that the new system won't affect them.  And for those of us that need a reminder it will help.  I think it works out for both groups.

[LynnJuniper]

Unless, it seems, you're multiclassed which takes us back to the start

[Dorganath]

Unless, it seems, you're multiclassed which takes us back to the start

Second verse, same as the first!

[Marswipp]

Second verse, same as the first!

A half rhyme!:D

[merlin34baseball]

yes, I think most of my problem with the this is that it hurts multiclassed casters the most.  The time spells last is based on single caster class.  So say your 20th level, with a 13/7 split.  Well your spells last 13 minutes, but you cant rest for 20.  If you were say a 10/10 Mage/Cleric you are even in more trouble, 10 minute spells all around and 20 minute rest timer. So... one third of time or worse time you are very vulnerable. And when you have a character who absolutely has to have those buffs to survive, your going to end up running for your life every couple of battles or so, or stay in the back plinking monsters for 10 HPs damage with a bow.  Sorta drastically changes how one has to play their character doesn't it?