Path of the Bear...

[hollowflame]

So I hadn't a clue where else to stick this, but I'm going to put it here. It's my second go around layonara - not that I managed to get far the first time but I feel in love regardless. I just submitted a new character to start exploring the world again (you can read his submission here: http://forums.layonara.com/character-submissions/180512-new-character-submission-karvus-gurhund.html) The gist is that he's was born to a "civilized" mother after a romantic liaison with a barbarian tribesman. After she dies when he's young he runs away to the north, crashes his boat, is adopted by a barbarian tribe and taught their ways. He eventually leaves - not feeling as though he belongs there, and sets out for his own. I butchered the story in trying to recap it here, so if you're interested please read the link.. but for the sake of argument...

Problem is, he's a bit of an egotistical thing, somewhat lax on his moral code in places, though still a good guy (Chaotic good, and a Barb/Rogue), and a fame/glory/conquest kind of guy. Ultimately through RP I'd really like to see him mature emotionally and spiritually, and come to find a cause bigger than himself.

This brings me to my question: What is the path of the bear warrior, from an RP standpoint? I've read the brief Lore/Handbook descriptions, but they don't say much. What is the level of spiritual end of it required? How does one actually *become* a bear warrior in roleplaying terms (I know a quest will be thrown in somewhere). What sort of groundwork will I need to lay for this poor self-absorbed wretch to wake up and do something greater with himself? Heh.

Any ideas, musings, etc. will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

[mumbles]

Im working on something similar for my latest Pc Dan , for special Prc  ... its always good ask around Icly maybe you get lucky and find someone who has followed the path yu dream of and cant point you in the right directiuon to walk ;-P

Yeah Probably the way id go is find a someone whos been there and done it  . failing that i dunno personally

[hollowflame]

Thanks. I'll try to ask around.. though in large part I don't see it as something that the character himself will "seek out" so much as have pushed towards him. The plot arch eventually takes him back to his barbarian roots and he has something of a spiritual experience that sets him down the way..

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Most of the bear-warrior ideas center around having the Bear as a totem animal, whose form they take when they reach a level of... Well, I guess you could CALL it enlightenment...

[miltonyorkcastle]

I'm not sure how the bear warrior path itself will fit into the "bigger than himself" bit about your character, as it's not a class about "something bigger" necessarily. The Mistone Alliance Scout class, on the other hand, ~is~ a class designed to be about the bigger picture. Most classes are not like that however, and are more localized in flavor to your own character. I'd say this is likely to be the case with your characer and bear warrior if you choose to go that route. However, that's not saying that him becoming a bear warrior might not actually be worked into some other big thing your character gets involved in, resluting in the bear warrior gig having more than local meaning. you never know how things will work out. My suggestion is to get involved in quests and to just muck around the world, interacting with everyone you possibly can.

[hollowflame]

I'm not sure how the bear warrior path itself will fit into the "bigger than himself" bit about your character, as it's not a class about "something bigger" necessarily. The Mistone Alliance Scout class, on the other hand, ~is~ a class designed to be about the bigger picture. Most classes are not like that however, and are more localized in flavor to your own character. I'd say this is likely to be the case with your characer and bear warrior if you choose to go that route. However, that's not saying that him becoming a bear warrior might not actually be worked into some other big thing your character gets involved in, resluting in the bear warrior gig having more than local meaning. you never know how things will work out. My suggestion is to get involved in quests and to just muck around the world, interacting with everyone you possibly can.

I think what I was going for was.. not necessarily "Bigger" in terms of say.. Saving the world from a wizard with a clockwork atom bomb.. but more in terms of bringing his conciousness to something outside of himself. In a lot of ways, though hes a bit more experienced in years he's still emotionally a teenager - mostly because of his upbringing. I want to see him become less self-absorbed and the like.. and come to do something more than just seek personal glory. The Bear Warrior description actually reads something like "They often become champions of rustic villages and tribes" ..paraphrasing, obviously.. but it's a good example of where he might go..

For instance (not necessarily the one I want to use:) He at some point comes to linger for whatever reason in tribal settlement X. Settlement X is threatened by some big gibbly beasty/army/Hoarde of caffinated orcs and he feels compellled to help ready their defences, blah blah.. this brings his focus outside of his own persona glory into the realm of defending something larger than his ego - in this case, the lives of however many live in this settlement. It doesnt have to be a save-the-world sort of scenario per se (though I can't say he might not become involved in something like that).

At some point I was also playing with the idea of finding out about his father and that plays into it. Maybe the father became a tribal champion and bear warrior himself, and died defending settlement Y. Maybe it was fate that kar wound up in such similar circumstances - or maybe settlement X was where he finds out about his father to begin with.

I have a lot of ideas floating about for it that havent completely cemented yet. Though what I was curious about would be if there was any information regarding the actual process of becoming a Bear Warrior.. are there any set rituals, or initiations.. any .. whatever.. thats actually transcribed somewhere that I've overlooked..or is it an individual process that is more tailored to the individual seeking to follow the path?

-----------------------------------------

On another note, is there any sort of religious connection to the bear path, or to the barbarians in general? for the latter, its obviously not a church set up or anything but are there specific deities that should be leaned towards, or are the barbarians more likely to be animists, ancestor worshippers, or spiritualists? Totem animals certainly sound like something that would fall into the latter traditions more than any formal god/goddess worship.

Let me know what you think!

[miltonyorkcastle]

The latter- individual process.

As for religious connection, totems and the like, such has not been defined for Layo, though that also doesn't mean something like that couldn't come into place later. You'll have to buzz EdtheKet about it, if he doesn't chime in here later.

Really, I'd look to Folian for shifter stuff, Katia for nature stuff, or Kithairien (though Kit's more of an elven god) for strength/hunting stuff. Of the three, I actually like the latter most for bear warrior stuff, despite him being about speed and elves, but any of those seem appropriate religious supporters of the path of a bear warrior.

DISCLAIMER: I'm not the most versed GM in Layo religions. Others may chime in here and expand on or dispute what little info I've offered.

[Acacea]

If you're talking about the northern isles (like Krashin, "Barbarian Island"), think norse, and lose the term barbarian (IC of course) as that's guaranteed to tick them off and alienate from his heritage. They are barbaric and savage in much the way the vikings were termed barbaric and savage, but with a rich oral tradition of storytelling and veneration of personal strength. Very hardy, red-blooded and warlike seafarers.

So from their perspective, no "Mes hunt fishies" unless said 'barbarian' is going to be the village idiot and not an intelligent representative of an entire clan.

No self calling barbarian, unless it were meant to be ironic I guess.

Totems are cool, personal animals with which a warrior may identify with...those of the bear seem to be the most venerated with their whole ability to take the shape of their spirit animal and serve as a mark of strength and leadership and all that, though at least one bear warrior has roleplayed a strong physical discomfort with the killing of bears. I believe that was simply personal flavor, however.

Other than that, the only god really worth mentioning is Mist, as she holds a pretty good position there. From a certain perspective she serves in a similar role as Thor even when worship is not formalized. Thunder and lightning, strength and challenge, bringer of both life and death... while many are not focused on bringing chaos and destruction to everyone else, they generally are very strong about facing it, respecting an opposition that seeks to challenge them constantly and being firm and fearless in it, which is the other side of Mist's rebellious dogma. I'd say she has a pretty strong presence in the north, all things considered. Even those that do not serve her, respect her as an entity. The Voices of Mist, the skalds of Lady Doom, got their origins in the north, for example.

[hollowflame]

Thanks Acacea!

Yes, I didn't have any dillusions about ways of speech or the term "Barbarian" (Try calling a "Gypsy" by that name and see what happens..) I was mostly using that term for familiarities sake on the forums.

Actually, one of the reasons I am interested in playing a "barbarian" character, is I am very interested in norse culture, as well as early anglo saxxon, etc.. I'm well aware of the depth and breadth of their cultural heritage. That is a large part of why I brought it up here. I looked through the lore section some and the handbook and neither had much to say on the culture of the northern isles. I was kind of debating if its something that has already been set in stone and written and I just cant find it, or if it is something that was sort of motioned to and I had room to.. not invent necessarily, but transpose actual historical culture into it.

I didn't want to start off playing him as an animist, for instance..and then find out later on they had an official patron god I was simply unaware of. It also brings up a number of other questions I had (I hope you don't mind!)

1) Is there any more information anywhere on the cultures of the Karshin isles, etc?  I can grab, aside from the..two paragraphs or so on the Lore section.

2) How many/how diverse are the tribes in the region? Is it dozens and dozens of individual village sized tribes? Are there just a handful? Are they all individual historical stocks of people (think Celts vs. Anglo saxxon, vs. Norse, vs.. etc etc) or are they more or less of one background (for instance..all norse)? Are they all a single "nation" or are they again tons of different independent groups? Are they mostly human, or dwarven or..? Do individual clans ever contain more than one Race of people (in terms of Species instead of heritage)

3)If the answer to 2 points towards multiple independent groups, what are the relations between these? Are the tribes more or less at peace.. or are they constantly raiding one another and struggling for land? (again think Celts vs. Picts vs. Anglo..blah) Even if they are one big tribe so to speak..are they warring against each other or is it an internal struggle among tribal/clan leaders?

4)Is there any known political structure? Ive been saying tribes for the sake of it being convenient, or is it really closer to an early feudal system.. a King over every little area surrounded by Jarls and Thanes...

5)Are there/where are any other major "Barbarian" settlements to be heard of?

6)In absence of solid answers to any of the above, how much leeway might I be given towards carving my own cultural elements into it, or at the very least helping suggest historical models and details for interested parties..?

Okay! that's too much typing for one post. Let me know what you think and thanks everyone!

[Acacea]

These are awesome questions that a lot of us love to see, because they're the kinds of things we are interested in, too. I didn't intend any slight by the barbarian reminder, but much like we get "Hello, I am a rogue!" introductions at times, so do we sometimes forget and let our characters call themselves barbarians and such. It never hurts to put it out there!

I'm unsure what the leaders of any particular clans are called - I've only seen "Chieftains" and only seen thanes applied to leaders of dwarven clans, who of course also seem to borrow from the norse here and there in their culture, except with the Voraxian war god instead of the ocean part (and an odd scottish brogue, of course!), and we don't seem to have Jarls at the moment (other than Olme's character). I don't think I've ever heard of a king of the whole, but that doesn't mean it isn't possible. Probably not, though.

I don't believe they are one big tribe, but are rather several clans, but I'm not sure the area is so big as to warrant many dozens, for example. From the norse perspective, I think it could be considered similar - raiders from one or many clans clashing with outsiders by sea, but also having personal feuds at home with longhouse burnings and rivalries.

You can see a glimpse of this in the write up for the Voices of Mist, which are of course about the skalds, but give a peek into the culture.

There may be other cultures at work than just "norse-ish," but I don't believe every clan has a different historical background. I could be wrong - as you have seen, the current handbook is out of date and the next one is in editing I believe - but "the clans" would probably be norse influenced, and any other peoples be outside of the general population assumed to inhabit there. On settlements, the only noted one in the current handbook is Raven's Watch, which you've seen.

I'm all out of order I know, but I'm also wheezing and rasping with some kind of out of season cold, so I'm not sure I'm entirely coherent.

There are other races to be seen on the islands if you go check them out, but I'm not sure of the actual clan membership part. Like milty said, Ed might weigh in with some spoilers from the new handbook, but we've been asking questions about them for a looong time. So most importantly, regarding the leeway given to write about it, I would just go where it takes you. If you wanted to add some detail and flavor to his father's clan, I doubt it would be contested unless you started treading into the major themes and structure (as it were) of the isles. You could probably write a small ilsarian clan for all the sense it makes, if you had a good enough reason for it and understood that they would really stand out as total aliens to the culture. It just wouldn't go in the books, nor really register on the radar.

So, the smaller on the scale, the easier it is to invent your own details. Going big means more fact checking, which we aren't always able to help with - Ed has the final say on all that. Sorry we can't be of more help on the details...everyone is eagerly awaiting the new handbook.

[hollowflame]

You are an exceptionally helpful individual, I thought I might say.

In the character bio that spawned this whole discussion, I sort of fudged in a piece about the tribe/clan he came from (or was adopted by, in any case) and went with the flow of it.

I'm rather excited about the next book - I'm also a bit hopeless. As the character has started and is gaining money, I've been spending what I can spare customizing his armor more barbarianly appropriate. His sword is currently being modeled off of an Anglosaxxon Long sax (the blades that were so obiquitiously carried that the Romans named the whole people for them).

Now if I had any idea how to get a cloak that looked like fur...

[stragen]

1) Is there any more information anywhere on the cultures of the Karshin isles, etc?  I can grab, aside from the..two paragraphs or so on the Lore section.

2) How many/how diverse are the tribes in the region? Is it dozens and dozens of individual village sized tribes? Are there just a handful? Are they all individual historical stocks of people (think Celts vs. Anglo saxxon, vs. Norse, vs.. etc etc) or are they more or less of one background (for instance..all norse)? Are they all a single "nation" or are they again tons of different independent groups? Are they mostly human, or dwarven or..? Do individual clans ever contain more than one Race of people (in terms of Species instead of heritage)

3)If the answer to 2 points towards multiple independent groups, what are the relations between these? Are the tribes more or less at peace.. or are they constantly raiding one another and struggling for land? (again think Celts vs. Picts vs. Anglo..blah) Even if they are one big tribe so to speak..are they warring against each other or is it an internal struggle among tribal/clan leaders?

4)Is there any known political structure? Ive been saying tribes for the sake of it being convenient, or is it really closer to an early feudal system.. a King over every little area surrounded by Jarls and Thanes...

5)Are there/where are any other major "Barbarian" settlements to be heard of?

6)In absence of solid answers to any of the above, how much leeway might I be given towards carving my own cultural elements into it, or at the very least helping suggest historical models and details for interested parties..?

1)
You could snoop around what other players have done in the past.  Poke around the character development journals of other players. Or the character submissions.

2)
Some player invented tribes include the Elksoul, (Karana, Karim,) and the BearClaws (tora, ragar, sorus).

Indeed the Bearclaw tribe might be the ideal place for a bear warrior to hail from.  I think Karim and Tora are both Barbarian Rogues as well.

3)
During the Dark Ages the Frozen North became even more Frozen.   The tundra did not bloom in summer.  No summer for many years at a time.  This may have impacted the tribe you create.  

In at least one tribe, the young folk fled to the Cities of the South while the older tribes people stubbornly clung to their traditions.  Perhaps in the end they Elders had true wisdom, for the Sun returned.

This experience may now be folk-lore in your characters tribe.

4) Dunno about human rulers.  However, the Northern Islands are the claimed territory of an Ancient White Dragon.  


5) The port city of Ravenswatch on Krashin has long been a meeting place between the Tribes and the Merchant Traders of Leringard (Mistone).