Sneak Attack Versus Defensive Awareness II

[Script Wrecked]

Is anyone aware when sneak attack gets past defensive awareness 2?

I understood DA2 stopped flanking, but apparently you don't need to flank to sneak attack:

[00:13:41] Argali Trueaxe : Initiative Roll : 18 : (16 + 2 = 18)
[00:13:41] Awakened Assassin of Storms attacks Storold Doesscha : *target concealed: 75%* : (8 + 22 = 30)
[00:13:41] Awakened Assassin of Storms attacks Storold Doesscha : *target concealed: 75%* : (4 + 17 = 21)
[00:13:41] Argali Trueaxe attacks Awakened Assassin of Storms : *hit* : (3 + 30 = 33)
[00:13:41] Argali Trueaxe attacks Awakened Assassin of Storms : *hit* : (16 + 25 = 41)
[00:13:41] Argali Trueaxe attacks Awakened Assassin of Storms : *critical hit* : (20 + 20 = 40 : Threat Roll: 18 + 20 = 38)
[00:13:41] Argali Trueaxe damages Awakened Assassin of Storms: 7 (7 Fire)
[00:13:41] Argali Trueaxe damages Awakened Assassin of Storms: 46 (46 Physical)
[00:13:41] Awakened Assassin of Storms : Damage Resistance absorbs 5 damage
[00:13:41] Argali Trueaxe damages Awakened Assassin of Storms: 5 (5 Fire)
[00:13:41] Argali Trueaxe damages Awakened Assassin of Storms: 16 (16 Physical)
[00:13:41] Awakened Assassin of Storms : Damage Resistance absorbs 5 damage
[00:13:41] Argali Trueaxe damages Awakened Assassin of Storms: 5 (5 Fire)
[00:13:41] Argali Trueaxe damages Awakened Assassin of Storms: 11 (11 Physical)
[00:13:41] Awakened Assassin of Storms : Damage Resistance absorbs 5 damage
[00:13:42] Storold Doesscha attacks Awakened Assassin of Storms : *hit* : (16 + 28 = 44)
[00:13:42] Storold Doesscha attacks Awakened Assassin of Storms : *miss* : (1 + 23 = 24)
[00:13:42] Storold Doesscha damages Awakened Assassin of Storms: 7 (7 Fire)
[00:13:42] Storold Doesscha damages Awakened Assassin of Storms: 8 (2 Physical 6 Acid)
[00:13:42] Argali Trueaxe : Tumble : *failure* : (5 + 4 = 9 vs. DC: 15)
[00:13:42] Argali Trueaxe : Tumble : *failure* : (8 + 4 = 12 vs. DC: 15)
[00:13:42] Attack Of Opportunity : Awakened Assassin of Storms attacks Argali Trueaxe : *hit* : (9 + 26 = 35)
[00:13:43] Awakened Assassin of Storms damages Argali Trueaxe: 7 (7 Physical)
[00:13:43] Argali Trueaxe : Damage Resistance absorbs 5 damage
[00:13:43] Argali Trueaxe : Damage Reduction absorbs 3 damage
[00:13:43] Sneak Attack : Awakened Assassin of Storms attacks Storold Doesscha : *target concealed: 75%* : (12 + 19 = 31)
[00:13:43] Sneak Attack : Awakened Assassin of Storms attacks Storold Doesscha : *miss* : (2 + 14 = 16)
[00:13:43] Attack Of Opportunity : Awakened Assassin of Storms attacks Argali Trueaxe : *miss* : (1 + 26 = 27)
[00:13:44] Argali Trueaxe attacks Awakened Assassin of Storms : *miss* : (8 + 13 = 21)
[00:13:44] Argali Trueaxe attacks Awakened Assassin of Storms : *hit* : (12 + 30 = 42)
[00:13:44] Storold Doesscha attacks Awakened Assassin of Storms : *hit* : (17 + 18 = 35)
[00:13:44] Argali Trueaxe damages Awakened Assassin of Storms: 7 (7 Fire)
[00:13:44] Argali Trueaxe damages Awakened Assassin of Storms: 9 (9 Physical)
[00:13:44] Experience Points Gained:  195
[00:13:44] Argali Trueaxe killed Awakened Assassin of Storms
[00:13:44] Awakened Assassin of Storms : Damage Resistance absorbs 5 damage
[00:13:45] Sneak Attack : Awakened Assassin of Storms attacks Storold Doesscha : *target concealed: 75%* : (6 + 28 = 34)
[00:13:45] Off Hand : Sneak Attack : Awakened Assassin of Storms attacks Storold Doesscha : *target concealed: 75%* : (19 + 24 = 43)
[00:13:45] Awakened Assassin of Storms attacks Argali Trueaxe : *hit* : (9 + 22 = 31)
[00:13:45] Awakened Assassin of Storms attacks Argali Trueaxe : *hit* : (20 + 22 = 42 : Threat Roll: 2 + 22 = 24)
[00:13:45] Awakened Assassin of Storms attacks Argali Trueaxe : *miss* : (4 + 22 = 26)
[00:13:45] Awakened Assassin of Storms attacks Argali Trueaxe : *miss* : (11 + 17 = 28)
[00:13:45] Awakened Assassin of Storms attacks Argali Trueaxe : *hit* : (18 + 17 = 35 : Threat Roll: 3 + 17 = 20)
[00:13:46] Awakened Assassin of Storms attacks Argali Trueaxe : *miss* : (12 + 17 = 29)
[00:13:46] Awakened Assassin of Storms damages Argali Trueaxe: 2 (2 Physical)
[00:13:46] Argali Trueaxe : Damage Resistance absorbs 5 damage
[00:13:46] Argali Trueaxe : Damage Reduction absorbs 3 damage
[00:13:46] Awakened Assassin of Storms damages Argali Trueaxe: 1 (1 Physical)
[00:13:46] Argali Trueaxe : Damage Resistance absorbs 5 damage
[00:13:46] Argali Trueaxe : Damage Reduction absorbs 3 damage
[00:13:46] Awakened Assassin of Storms damages Argali Trueaxe: 5 (5 Physical)
[00:13:46] Argali Trueaxe : Damage Resistance absorbs 5 damage
[00:13:46] Argali Trueaxe : Damage Reduction absorbs 3 damage
[00:13:46] Storold Doesscha attacks Awakened Assassin of Storms : *hit* : (14 + 26 = 40)
[00:13:46] Storold Doesscha damages Awakened Assassin of Storms: 10 (10 Fire)
[00:13:46] Storold Doesscha damages Awakened Assassin of Storms: 8 (5 Physical 3 Acid)
[00:13:47] Off Hand : Argali Trueaxe attacks Awakened Assassin of Storms : *miss* : (1 + 28 = 29)
[00:13:47] Off Hand : Argali Trueaxe attacks Awakened Assassin of Storms : *hit* : (10 + 23 = 33)
[00:13:47] Argali Trueaxe damages Awakened Assassin of Storms: 7 (7 Fire)
[00:13:47] Argali Trueaxe damages Awakened Assassin of Storms: 6 (6 Physical)
[00:13:47] Awakened Assassin of Storms : Damage Resistance absorbs 5 damage
[00:13:47] Sneak Attack : Awakened Assassin of Storms attacks Argali Trueaxe : *hit* : (16 + 12 = 28)
[00:13:47] Sneak Attack : Awakened Assassin of Storms attacks Argali Trueaxe : *hit* : (20 + 22 = 42 : Threat Roll: 12 + 22 = 34)
[00:13:47] Off Hand : Sneak Attack : Awakened Assassin of Storms attacks Argali Trueaxe : *hit* : (4 + 22 = 26)
[00:13:47] Sneak Attack : Awakened Assassin of Storms attacks Argali Trueaxe : *hit* : (17 + 17 = 34 : Threat Roll: 15 + 17 = 32)
[00:13:47] Sneak Attack : Awakened Assassin of Storms attacks Argali Trueaxe : *hit* : (14 + 12 = 26)
[00:13:47] Off Hand : Sneak Attack : Awakened Assassin of Storms attacks Argali Trueaxe : *hit* : (7 + 22 = 29)
[00:13:48] Awakened Assassin of Storms damages Argali Trueaxe: 35 (35 Physical)
[00:13:48] Argali Trueaxe : Damage Resistance absorbs 5 damage
[00:13:48] Argali Trueaxe : Damage Reduction absorbs 3 damage
[00:13:48] Awakened Assassin of Storms damages Argali Trueaxe: 50 (50 Physical)
[00:13:48] Argali Trueaxe : Damage Resistance absorbs 5 damage
[00:13:48] Argali Trueaxe : Damage Reduction absorbs 3 damage
[00:13:48] You are encumbered and cannot run.
[00:13:48] Awakened Assassin of Storms damages Argali Trueaxe: 37 (37 Physical)
[00:13:48] Argali Trueaxe : Damage Resistance absorbs 5 damage
[00:13:48] Argali Trueaxe : Damage Reduction absorbs 3 damage
[00:13:48] Awakened Assassin of Storms damages Argali Trueaxe: 40 (40 Physical)
[00:13:48] Argali Trueaxe : Damage Resistance absorbs 5 damage
[00:13:48] Argali Trueaxe : Damage Reduction absorbs 3 damage
[00:13:48] You are encumbered and cannot walk at normal speed.
[00:13:48] Awakened Assassin of Storms damages Argali Trueaxe: 28 (28 Physical)
[00:13:48] Argali Trueaxe : Damage Resistance absorbs 5 damage
[00:13:48] Argali Trueaxe : Damage Reduction absorbs 3 damage
[00:13:48] Awakened Assassin of Storms damages Argali Trueaxe: 39 (39 Physical)
[00:13:48] Argali Trueaxe : Damage Resistance absorbs 5 damage
[00:13:48] Argali Trueaxe : Damage Reduction absorbs 3 damage
[00:13:48] Sneak Attack : Awakened Assassin of Storms attacks Storold Doesscha : *target concealed: 75%* : (5 + 22 = 27)
[00:13:48] Sneak Attack : Awakened Assassin of Storms attacks Storold Doesscha : *target concealed: 75%* : (13 + 17 = 30)
[00:13:49] Sneak Attack : Awakened Assassin of Storms attacks Argali Trueaxe : *hit* : (17 + 12 = 29 : Threat Roll: 1 + 12 = 13)
[00:13:49] Off Hand : Sneak Attack : Awakened Assassin of Storms attacks Argali Trueaxe : *miss* : (1 + 22 = 23)
[00:13:49] Awakened Assassin of Storms damages Argali Trueaxe: 35 (35 Physical)
[00:13:49] Awakened Assassin of Storms killed Argali Trueaxe
[00:13:49] You are encumbered and cannot run.
[00:13:49] Argali Trueaxe : Damage Resistance absorbs 5 damage
[00:13:49] Argali Trueaxe : Damage Reduction absorbs 3 damage
[00:13:49] Soul Save vs. Soul Mother : *success* : (60 vs. DC: 19)

The thing was, the assassins were visible, and we weren't entangled, stunned, paralyzed, or knocked down.

Regards,

Script Wrecked.

[LordCove]

This feat is extremely powerful, because it means that while the dwarven defender is attacking, he's immune to Sneak Attacks from all opponents, not just the one he's currently attacking.


As stated in Lore.

*shrugs* No idea to be honest

[s0ulz]

The thing with this immunity is that it kicks in as long as you are in combat. If you exit combat or become affected by certain effects, you lose the perk.

Regarding your case, since I don't recognize the foe, I'd suggest either you got pushed out of battle by HiPS or DD stance being anulled. That would cause you to exit combat and become susceptible to sneak damage.

Another thing about this feat is that the immunity is lost when suffering from movement hindering effects (KD, Entanglement, Paralysation) and Darkness. While this wasn't the case for you, things can change very quick when used on you.

[Pibemanden]

I think the problem was that Argali got pushed around in the middle of this fight because of the amount of enemies we were fighting, it was just quite a shock to see Argali go down in a few seconds while she had been holding up very good on her own before that

[Filatus]

I think s0ul'aw might be right on the getting pushed out of battle. Those dark elves often bump people out of combat if they're rushing.

[00:13:47] Sneak Attack : Awakened Assassin of Storms attacks Argali Trueaxe : *hit* : (14 + 12 = 26)

I assume Argali's AC was higher than 26 here, so it seems she lost her dodge ac here.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

From looking at the log, those sneaks were hit just after she took her own attack...

This just makes me growl and glare at Bioware - Improved Uncanny Dodge doesn't make one proof against Sneak Attack (unless the Rogue is 4 levels higher), either.

*Kicks the engine.*

So glad we're moving to our own platform.

[Masterjack]

*Kicks the engine.*

So glad we're moving to our own platform.

You tell em Stephen, you tell who's boss

[lonnarin]

I find it quits working whenever the rogues are 4 levels higher than the defender, or any time the defender is incapacitated, immobilized, blinded, dazed or any other form of flatfootedness.  Sometimes too getting bumped around during combat makes the dwarf lose track of what they were doing in combat, essentially making them temporarily flatfooted until you target the foe again and get back into the swing of combat.  So you can be "bumped" out of the regular initiative sequence and into getting a nasty couple rounds of sneak attack from time to time.

Darkness too is a nightmare to dodgy characters. Any time you cant see a foe or around you, you'll get flatfooted.  On the flip side it makes rogues a skald's best friend because all those blind and deafened foes cant see what's hitting them and will get sneak attacked even when the enemy targets the rogue to to toe directly.  I'm not certain if expertise works under these circumstances or not... technically it shouldn't, but I'm pretty sure it does.  At least when dazed or immobilized it manages to kick in, so its a good mode to throw up as soon as you notice things are breeching your anti-sneak feat.

[Script Wrecked]

Thanks everyone. Seems you just can't beat a good armor class...

[s0ulz]

Thanks everyone. Seems you just can't beat a good armor class...

Don't worry, you'll grow into being a twitchy DD player. Always wary and staring at the screen without blinking -just- in case this sort of thing happens and you have to do a 0,12 sec click to avoid utter devastation. Or just reattack your current target every 4-5 seconds or so. Eventually you'll be able to foresee situations where you'll be pushed around and will behave accordingly.

It's all in the wrist of the DD...

[Hellblazer]

Expertise works from what I remember even if you are blinded or in darkness.

[Thief Of Navarre]

You sure its not cause he was encumbered; I know in PnP most things lose their edge while your encumbered!

dodge bonus goes, rangers cant fight full stop, monks lose movement bonuses and druids lose many of their perks while encumbered :S

[s0ulz]

Encumbrance doesn't work that way in NWN. Argali was pushed out of battle.